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Old 02-03-2012, 10:32 PM  
Urc Burry Urc Burry is offline
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Chiefs hire Daboll

Per Adam Schefter twitter
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Old 02-04-2012, 03:44 AM   #241
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
Cleveland was a mess. Miami was a mess. There was far too much wrong with the players on the field for anyone to form a decisive conclusion about the man's abilities as a coordinator.

All of you people freaking out about this are the same exact retards who say you NEED a franchise QB. Derp dee derp, but OC's who are shackled with terrible QB's are bad, and ones who take jobs with great QB's are smart?

Am I the ONLY person who sees the rather stupid circular logic that kind of assessment is based around?

Now here's why I don't like it: Pioli did the safe thing AGAIN. He hired what he was familiar with. Here's another thing that pisses me off: I think this has a lot to do with Matt Cassel. We bring in another Earhardt-Perkins guy because it's the only offense Cassel knows and he apparently struggled with the minor changes in philosophy between NE, Haley, and Weis (all of whom run the same system!). Not only that, but because the system changes so little it doesn't create a learning curve that would expose Cassel's lack of actual ability in a competition with another QB.

The positive in this is that it would require the least transition because it's the same system.

The problem is that his background won't excite anyone. Still though, fans over-rate coordinators. Talent is more important. Get a better QB. As long as he understands 'run on 3rd and short" and 'pass on 3rd and long", it's up to the talent to execute. I'm sick of us blaming coordinators instead of fixing the talent issues. We did it with the defense during the DV years. We need a better QB, and until we get one we'll be cycling through OC's.

I don't like the hire, but it's not so much an indictment on Daboll's abilities, which I think are hard to discern. I don't like it because it's exactly who I expected us to hire. Safe and predictable. Blah.

I disagree. I think football is won with execution, and execution is the sum of coaching, repetitions and muscle memory
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Old 02-04-2012, 03:58 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by xztop12 View Post
I disagree. I think football is won with execution, and execution is the sum of coaching, repetitions and muscle memory
Talented dedicated players execute. It's still the players that have to execute and the OC doesn't run the practice.. he calls the plays and sets up the offensive gameplan. Execution is far more about a head coach and the position coaches (who's job it is to ensure the individuals understand their role in the scheme) than coordinators.

Coaches matter, but the idea that an OC with a terrible team should be able to get anything but terrible results is naive at best and stupid at worst.
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:03 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by BossChief View Post
Absolutely frightening, isn't it?

This is completely embarrassing...

Just talking win loss and TD:INT ratios, here are Chad Pennington and Brett Favres combined totals for with and without Daboll:
You're putting an awful lot of blame on the QB coach. Especially considering these are veteran QBs we're talking about. I mean, does anyone really think Favre went to NY and made drastic changes to his mechanics and whatnot on the advice of some guy he'd never heard of?
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:05 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by BossChief View Post
Chad Pennington went to the 1-15 Dolphins and lead them to a 11-5 record with pretty much the same stats he got in NY the year before Daboll got there with essentially the same set of tools Brett had to work with.

I hope that last statement made sense, its late and it made sense to me.

Those boil down numbers of the surrounding production is way past scary.

Its the closest brand of "stat proof" we have to go off at the time being.

Lets just HOPE he has had an epiphany since then, I guess.
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:05 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by BigRock View Post
You're putting an awful lot of blame on the QB coach. Especially considering these are veteran QBs we're talking about. I mean, does anyone really think Favre went to NY and made drastic changes to his mechanics and whatnot on the advice of some guy he'd never heard of?
Follow-up: here's Chad Pennington's stats from 2006, the season he won comeback player of the year and the Jets made the playoffs.

17 TD, 16 INT, 82.6 passer rating, 64.5 completion percentage. (16 games).

Here's his next season with Daboll we're supposed to be horrified by:

10 TD, 9 INT, 86.1 passer rating, 68.8 completion percentage (9 games).

It's practically the exact same.
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:21 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by BigRock View Post
Follow-up: here's Chad Pennington's stats from 2006, the season he won comeback player of the year and the Jets made the playoffs.

17 TD, 16 INT, 82.6 passer rating, 64.5 completion percentage. (16 games).

Here's his next season with Daboll we're supposed to be horrified by:

10 TD, 9 INT, 86.1 passer rating, 68.8 completion percentage (9 games).

It's practically the exact same.
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:25 AM   #247
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according to pioli, the foundation of a superbowl team is comprised of Crennel, Daboll, and Cassel

this is what he's been building towards for 3 years

this is his master plan
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:27 AM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BossChief View Post
This is a hire that screams "no worthy candidate from a playoff team wanted the job, so we called in a member of the tree. Go Cassel."

Phil, what do you see in this hire that says "we can win playoff games with this guy as our OC"?
I think you're reading me wrong. I'm not arguing FOR Daboll. I'm arguing against the assumption that he's going to be awful. You'll very rarely see me be 100% for or against a guy. I'd rather wait and see. I've learned enough lessons over the years to understand that some seemingly mediocre guys pleasantly surprise us and the guys we think are going to do well are sometimes our worst nightmare. Daboll may well be an offensive genius. Who knows?

What I do know is that a green QB coach probably had about 3% influence over Brett Favre's play in 2008. He probably fetched Brett's coffee and Jenn Sterger in between queuing up game film.
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:29 AM   #249
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I get what you're trying to prove with numbers. But when you start analyzing numbers you have to work with constants and eliminate variables. All you have are variables with the statistics you're presenting. RainMan and cdcox would laugh at the numbers you're presenting here simply because you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
It's an attempt to measure his impact with teams. How else would you judge his performance?

Statistics vs "he keeps getting hired". Even if the data is less than ideal, it's pretty much the only measurable to go by. His being recycled by a good ole boys network hardly proves anything.
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:43 AM   #250
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This is obviously not a sexy hire, and I can't say it excites me, but not many hires would have excited me. So since everyone else is already ripping the move, I'll try to take a different view of it.

First, I doubt this was a "leftover" hire. This is probably the guy the Chiefs wanted after McDaniels took off for New England. Both Lombardi and LaCanfora mentioned it a while back. Since he was under contract until last week with the Dolphins, it's not a hire they had to rush to make.

Second, if we accepted the idea that Romeo's key thing was that he would provide stability and continuity with the offense, then it probably makes sense to look at this hire and say that it keeps in line with that same philosophy. Would it really make sense to have to spend another couple of years finding guys who fit into Saunder's offense, for example, if the goal is to win this year?

Third, Al Saunders was never an exciting candidate. His offenses post KC Pro-Bowl OL all ranked in the bottom half of the league in scoring. He has always been seriously overrated by Chiefs fans. Jim Zorn was never a serious candidate. Tom Clements wasn't going to leave Green Bay. Mike Sherman was going to go coach with his best friend in Miami. So who else would have been better that got swept up by other teams? Schottenheimer? Bruce Arians, who got run out of Pittsburgh? Greg Knapp, who the fans in Oakland are grumbling about? Dirk Koetter, whose offense was one of the worst in the league last year? I don't see very many exciting candidates that other teams hired which we swung and missed on, so we had to settle for the scrapheap.

So I could look at that list, then look at Daboll and say that he looks like a young up and coming coach who has progressed through the ranks from WR coach, to QB coach, to OC. The places where he has been OC, first Cleveland, that was just a joke. I don't know any OC who can coordinate a good offense with the likes of Seneca Wallace and a rookie Colt McCoy. McCoy actually regressed this year once Daboll left. Who did they have on offense, Hillis and Cribbs? That's a pathetic offense personnel-wise. Then, he goes to Miami. No training camp, and your starting QB gets hurt. So you have to try and get things done with Matt Moore, who was horrible the year before. But they were able to eventually get Moore playing well, and turned Reggie Bush into a legit running back. That's at least encouraging.

Everything I've read so far about the guy describes him as high energy, bright, well prepared, passionate, and not afraid of thinking outside the box and being creative on offense (I guess you have to when you don't have legit playmakers). So, again, this is not a hire that excites me, but it's not an unexpected hire. And because it is what it is, I'll try to look at some positives and get to know the guy better and hope that it works out positively. Most of the time with offensive coaches, it's more about fit and talent on offense than anything (see Mike McCarthy who was hired by the Packers despite coordinating the 31st ranked offense in the NFL the year they got him)...
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:45 AM   #251
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This is just a complete joke. A laughingstock joke.

I hate this team more and more each day.

This is what the "exec of the decade" builds? This team has no current depth, a shit coaching staff, and the league looks at him like he's an iron fist dictator.

If Daboll is given full reigns of this offense, we are ****ing screwed.

The competition for the QB position is going to be Matt Cassel and Matt Moore. That's like being put in a wet t-shirt contest with Delta Burke and Kiristie Alley.

FML.
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:46 AM   #252
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:47 AM   #253
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The competition for the QB position is going to be Matt Cassel and Matt Moore. That's like being put in a wet t-shirt contest with Delta Burke and Kiristie Alley.

FML.
I'm pretty sure Matt Moore is still under contract in Miami...
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:49 AM   #254
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The only e-mail I received from my friend about the Daboll hire:

"Bill luring McDaniels back, really, really screwed Scott".

McDaniels was the first option by a longshot.

I'd rather McDaniels than this.
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:49 AM   #255
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I'm pretty sure Matt Moore is still under contract in Miami...
Well, at least Kirstie Alley is staying in Miami.
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