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Old 03-04-2012, 07:53 PM  
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Cardinal Dolan says they will not yield to Obama

(CNSNews.com) – Cardinal Timothy Dolan, archbishop of New York and president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, sent a letter on Friday to all the Catholic bishops of the United States reasserting the conviction of the Catholic Church that it will not yield to the Obama administration’s command—issued in the form of a Health and Human Services regulation implementing the president’s health-care plan–that Catholics and Catholic institutions must violate the teachings of their faith by purchasing and providing health insurance plans that pay for sterilizations, contraceptives and abortifacients.

“We have made it clear in no uncertain terms to the government that we are not at peace with its invasive attempt to curtail the religious freedom we cherish as Catholics and Americans,” Cardinal Dolan wrote his brother bishops.

“We did not ask for this fight, but we will not run from it,” he said.

“Since January 20, when the final, restrictive HHS Rule was first announced,” Cardinal Dolan wrote, “we have become certain of two things: religious freedom is under attack, and we will not cease our struggle to protect it.”

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/top-...ill-not-run-it
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:27 PM   #16
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What amazes me about all of this is the idea that something as PURELY elective as contraception should even be CONSIDERED to be covered. When it comes to a national health care system, why are elective procedure even in the conversation?

Elective medicine has NO PLACE in a national health care mandate. Period.

Why stop at the Pill. Why not diet pills? Breast augmentation(I'm all for this actually), liposuction, fertility drugs, sex change operations, hair transplants, rogaine?
Because we all must be made to care enough for our fellow citizens to pay for treatments that enhance mental health and well-being. Balding and getting fat may not be medically damaging in and of themselves, but think of the wounds they may inflict on a fragile psyche.
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:32 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
What amazes me about all of this is the idea that something as PURELY elective as contraception should even be CONSIDERED to be covered. When it comes to a national health care system, why are elective procedure even in the conversation?

Elective medicine has NO PLACE in a national health care mandate. Period.

Why stop at the Pill. Why not diet pills? Breast augmentation(I'm all for this actually), liposuction, fertility drugs, sex change operations, hair transplants, rogaine?
In general most health care plans cover viagra but not the pill. same thing with no smoking pills
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:37 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
In general most health care plans cover viagra but not the pill. same thing with no smoking pills
Shut the **** up, Donny.
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:38 PM   #19
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ok, then how do we get "self image modification" to be a right? If we are going to hell, we may as well be surrounded by medically enhanced hot women while we go.
Thats way over rated. Hot women may give you some temporary feeling of satisfaction but in the long run either they are or will be nuts and bring you all manner of pain and dissatisfaction.

Get a good dog and a BBQ grill, a decent fridge for beer and ice cream and build a great library. Don't miss fishing in spring and fall, use a real fireplace on cold days, and learn to enjoy good wine and good bourbon. Make a few trips to Italy. Listen to all forms of music.

Deal with as few people as possible. Stay close to your friends.

The government cannot do any of those things for you and will try to restrict your enjoyment at every turn while sucking every last dime from you so some asshole can have a free cell phone, rubbers he won't use, a check for staying home, and food stamps he can use on low grade beer and generic smokes.
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:39 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
In general most health care plans cover viagra but not the pill. same thing with no smoking pills
With Viagra.. in theory it is supposed to treat a malfunction.. so it isn't supposed to be elective. I can see some logic in covering it (although it is abused).

So let's leave Viagra off the table and address all the other elective drugs and procedures... why contraception and not them?

Ok, first off, can we all agree that contraception (when used to prevent pregnancy and not for other medical purposes) is ELECTIVE medicine?

Just to be clear, elective is defined in this case as "pertaining to a procedure that is performed by choice and is not essential" just replace procedure with drug in the case of the Pill.
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:56 PM   #21
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The pill costs $9 a month at Wal-Mart. Condoms are not a dollar...

Stay out of my bedroom, my womb, my sex life, etc etc....oh wait!?
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:57 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
With Viagra.. in theory it is supposed to treat a malfunction.. so it isn't supposed to be elective. I can see some logic in covering it (although it is abused).

So let's leave Viagra off the table and address all the other elective drugs and procedures... why contraception and not them?

Ok, first off, can we all agree that contraception (when used to prevent pregnancy and not for other medical purposes) is ELECTIVE medicine?

Just to be clear, elective is defined in this case as "pertaining to a procedure that is performed by choice and is not essential" just replace procedure with drug in the case of the Pill.

I dont know if i agree about the pill being elective. their life circumstance would dictate that...I guess i look at it as they are taking responsbility
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:02 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
I dont know if i agree about the pill being elective. their life circumstance would dictate that...I guess i look at it as they are taking responsbility
Huh? You saw the definition of elective, right?

Other than having some type of medical condition... how is contraception NOT elective. It is purely a choice. Taking the Pill doesn't "fix" anything medically. Don't get me wrong, I am all for women taking responsibility but that is purely a CHOICE. There really is zero room to argue this.

To clarify further... breast augmentation is elective... breast cancer surgery is not. Gastric bypass is elective, inguinal hernia surgery is not.

Last edited by AustinChief; 03-04-2012 at 10:07 PM..
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:10 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Huh? You saw the definition of elective, right?

Other than having some type of medical condition... how is contraception NOT elective. It is purely a choice. Taking the Pill doesn't "fix" anything medically. Don't get me wrong, I am all for women taking responsibility but that is purely a CHOICE. There really is zero room to argue this.
you would be wrong. studies have shown the pill reduces ovarian cancer by 50%.

second you dont have a teenage daughter that is now acting human during her rag time
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:17 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
you would be wrong. studies have shown the pill reduces ovarian cancer by 50%.
I can show you FAR FAR FAR more studies showing negative effects of the Pill. BUT let's just say that a woman has a history of ovarian cancer in the family... and her doctor prescribes the Pill as a preventative. I am fine with that, as stated earlier by my exempting non-elective use of the Pill to treat a real condition.

We are talking about the VAST majority of women who use the Pill for one reason. To prevent pregnancy. How is that not elective?

And no I was not even close to being WRONG, did you READ the definition of elective? How is taking the Pill a medical NECESSITY??? (exempting cases where it is prescribed to treat a condition) Do I need to define necessity as well?
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:31 PM   #26
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I can show you FAR FAR FAR more studies showing negative effects of the Pill. BUT let's just say that a woman has a history of ovarian cancer in the family... and her doctor prescribes the Pill as a preventative. I am fine with that, as stated earlier by my exempting non-elective use of the Pill to treat a real condition.

We are talking about the VAST majority of women who use the Pill for one reason. To prevent pregnancy. How is that not elective?

And no I was not even close to being WRONG, did you READ the definition of elective? How is taking the Pill a medical NECESSITY??? (exempting cases where it is prescribed to treat a condition) Do I need to define necessity as well?
You conviently ignored the pms factor that the pill has saved millions of lives :d

fine i wont quibble with you, yes it is probably elective most of the time just like viagra and chantix
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:49 PM   #27
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You conviently ignored the pms factor that the pill has saved millions of lives :d

fine i wont quibble with you, yes it is probably elective most of the time just like viagra and chantix
yeah, I did avoid that one... which is actually how I have survived various PMSing women... complete avoidance!
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:52 AM   #28
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The Cardinal may be setting himself up for a real problem if he tries to finally address the hypocrisy of the church position on this and many other issues as it compares to the actual practices of the practicing members of the American flock.... And yeah I am Catholic so I am not attacking an institution I am not familiar with....
What problem do you foresee? Do you really think that Catholics are going to turn on the Church because it continues to refuse to offer contraception coverage to employees of it's charitable institutions? If so, why haven't they turned on the Church already?

This isn't about contraception. This is about religious freedom.
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:57 AM   #29
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What amazes me about all of this is the idea that something as PURELY elective as contraception should even be CONSIDERED to be covered. When it comes to a national health care system, why are elective procedure even in the conversation?

Elective medicine has NO PLACE in a national health care mandate. Period.

Why stop at the Pill. Why not diet pills? Breast augmentation(I'm all for this actually), liposuction, fertility drugs, sex change operations, hair transplants, rogaine?
Amen. The democrats insist on poisoning the idea of universal coverage by pushing for gold plated, liberal-touchstone coverage instead of working toward a model where people get basic coverage that focuses on reducing the chances that they'll become a burden on society without driving up demand for elective medicine (i.e. catastrophic coverage). They're just trying to buy votes with free goodies like they always do.
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:57 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
you would be wrong. studies have shown the pill reduces ovarian cancer by 50%.

second you dont have a teenage daughter that is now acting human during her rag time
Studies have also implicated the pill in breast cancer.

No doctor prescribes the pill to prevent ovarian cancer so your argument, even if it's factual (and I'm skeptical), fails to address the issue.

There are legitimate medical uses for the pill, but contraception isn't one of them and neither is any impact on ovarian cancer.
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