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Old 03-08-2012, 12:50 PM  
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

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Old 03-25-2012, 09:30 PM   #1651
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So Zimmerman hasn't given a clear account of what happened? Something like 'I approached him and asked him what he was up to. He just started walking away so I reached and grabbed his shoulder and he went off and started beating me up. I feared for my life so I pulled my weapon and shot him.'

I'm not saying I think that's what happened.
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:32 PM   #1652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pr_capone View Post


The world needs more people like you.
Trying to read through this thread to find facts is way to difficult.
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:38 PM   #1653
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So is this where all the fun has been?
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:44 PM   #1654
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Pawn, I'm curious. I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm sure I missed your complete stance.

Do you feel that Zimmerman is the victim here and acted completely in self defense, or are you just trying to lend your support to the Stand Your Ground laws, as R8ers and Just Passin By are?
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:01 PM   #1655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philfree View Post
So Zimmerman hasn't given a clear account of what happened? Something like 'I approached him and asked him what he was up to. He just started walking away so I reached and grabbed his shoulder and he went off and started beating me up. I feared for my life so I pulled my weapon and shot him.'

I'm not saying I think that's what happened.
Zimmerman has not publicly given any accounts. From what I understand, Zimmerman's lawyer claims that zimmerman got out of the car, to get a better look at the street sign/addresses and to ask what martin was doing. I believe he claimed Martin attacked Zimmerman. I saw snippets of it, and I am sure the full statements will come out on the 10th into public record, but I am positive Zimmerman will claim he was attacked by Martin.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:08 PM   #1656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
Pawn, I'm curious. I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm sure I missed your complete stance.

Do you feel that Zimmerman is the victim here and acted completely in self defense, or are you just trying to lend your support to the Stand Your Ground laws, as R8ers and Just Passin By are?
the author of the Stand Your Ground law says this incident is NOT covered by his law, and in no way meets the criteria.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:11 PM   #1657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
Pawn, I'm curious. I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm sure I missed your complete stance.

Do you feel that Zimmerman is the victim here and acted completely in self defense, or are you just trying to lend your support to the Stand Your Ground laws, as R8ers and Just Passin By are?
No, I have no feeling/thought about stand your ground laws. I haven't read them or know how they work in conjuction with 'normal' rights to self defense and use of force.

I do believe Zimmerman is a victim in a way, but probably not the way you think. He has been bashed by the media, pictures you see of him are from mug shots. He is made to look much bigger/scarier than Trayvon. His record (one dismissed assault on a police officer that he was cleared of and denied) has been discussed. He has been painted as a racist white guy. Basically I believe the whole situation has been very unfair to to Mr. Zimmerman. Meanwhile Trayvon has been painted as an angel, pictures of him 4-5 years ago have been shown to make him look child like/angelic, and his school record has been put under the rug. Why the bias? Clearly if Zimmerman is guilty there is no need for this.

Do I think zimmerman is a victim? Do I think he acted in self defense?

I think personally whoever initiated the physical contact is the criminal. If trayvon threw the 1st blow (which would be dumb) then I'm not saying he deserved to die, but when you do something dumb, there can be bad consequences.

If Zimmerman tackled/grabbed/ or used any kind of physical force on martin, then sure, punch the dude in the face!

But I don't think following someone, calling the cops, and asking them what theyre doing (when they don't live there and aren't recognized) is grounds to get punched in the face.

Sorry for the complex answer...heck maybe I didn't answer....Bottom line, I am keeping an open mind. I think that Zimmerman is probably guilty of some sort of over-reaction. Not any kind of murder, but maybe something else. Florida has really shitty manslaughter laws, so maybe not manslaughter...but something like negligent homicide - and I mean at the very MOST.

But if there are witnesses who can prove Trayvon threw the 1st punch or if it comes to light he had a pattern of gang activity etc...then it could make even that very difficult. Or if it is shown there was a struggle for the gun, or if trayvon was detaining him by way of mount. Even WITH the help he is getting from the media and Sharpton crew.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:20 PM   #1658
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
No, I have no feeling/thought about stand your ground laws. I haven't read them or know how they work in conjuction with 'normal' rights to self defense and use of force.

I do believe Zimmerman is a victim in a way, but probably not the way you think. He has been bashed by the media, pictures you see of him are from mug shots. He is made to look much bigger/scarier than Trayvon. His record (one dismissed assault on a police officer that he was cleared of and denied) has been discussed. He has been painted as a racist white guy. Basically I believe the whole situation has been very unfair to to Mr. Zimmerman. Meanwhile Trayvon has been painted as an angel, pictures of him 4-5 years ago have been shown to make him look child like/angelic, and his school record has been put under the rug. Why the bias? Clearly if Zimmerman is guilty there is no need for this.

Do I think zimmerman is a victim? Do I think he acted in self defense?

I think personally whoever initiated the physical contact is the criminal. If trayvon threw the 1st blow (which would be dumb) then I'm not saying he deserved to die, but when you do something dumb, there can be bad consequences.

If Zimmerman tackled/grabbed/ or used any kind of physical force on martin, then sure, punch the dude in the face!

But I don't think following someone, calling the cops, and asking them what theyre doing (when they don't live there and aren't recognized) is grounds to get punched in the face.

Sorry for the complex answer...heck maybe I didn't answer....Bottom line, I am keeping an open mind. I think that Zimmerman is probably guilty of some sort of over-reaction. Not any kind of murder, but maybe something else. Florida has really shitty manslaughter laws, so maybe not manslaughter...but something like negligent homicide - and I mean at the very MOST.

But if there are witnesses who can prove Trayvon threw the 1st punch or if it comes to light he had a pattern of gang activity etc...then it could make even that very difficult. Or if it is shown there was a struggle for the gun, or if trayvon was detaining him by way of mount. Even WITH the help he is getting from the media and Sharpton crew.
agreed that the media has created a firestorm here, but even if Martin DID throw the first punch, that is hardly a capital offense. From reports, Zimmerman didn't draw his gun until after he had regained his footing. IMHO that's murder.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:24 PM   #1659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats. View Post
the author of the Stand Your Ground law says this incident is NOT covered by his law, and in no way meets the criteria.
I had not heard that. Interesting.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:29 PM   #1660
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I had not heard that. Interesting.
http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012/...d-be-arrested/
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:38 PM   #1661
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Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats. View Post
1) even if Martin DID throw the first punch, that is hardly a capital offense. 2)From reports, Zimmerman didn't draw his gun until after he had regained his footing. 3)IMHO that's murder.
1) That is correct, but that isn't the entirety of what will be presented should Zimmerman go on trial. Likely it will be a brutal blow to the face, broken nose, fall to the ground where he got hit in the back of the head. Possibly even will be that M was on top of Z and wrestling or struggling, maybe even for the gun. One of the major factors in using deadly force is the ability to get away, if M was restrcting Z's ability to get away then Z may have more of a right (in a jury's mind) to use deadly force, since that is the law.

2) Can you cite this? I have not seen this reported anywhere. I wouldn't believe this at all. I would only believe what comes in to official testimony on APril 10th and what witnesses swear to under oath etc. Not to discount what you are saying, but I have not heard this anywhere yet, so I would like the source.

3) well you may or may not be right. It will be up to a jury to decide. For one thing, you may be wrong about him standing. For another thing, even if he is standing he may not be found guilty of murder because with murder you have to prove INTENT which can be very, very difficult..(and you have to overcome self defense, stand your ground possibly, and also imperfect self defense)yes even if you shoot a gun at someone. Yet another thing would be if zimmerman stood up and tried to back off and martin came back at him....there are too many scenarios where what you say in #3 might not be true. In any case, I think a murder conviction based on just what I have seen so far is extremely unlikely, no matter what position they were in, unless Zimmerman was on top with martin on the ground or the bullet hole was in through the back and out through the chest. It is much more likely to be a lesser offense, I doubt the prosecution will even attempt a murder trial.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:43 PM   #1662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
1) That is correct, but that isn't the entirety of what will be presented should Zimmerman go on trial. Likely it will be a brutal blow to the face, broken nose, fall to the ground where he got hit in the back of the head. Possibly even will be that M was on top of Z and wrestling or struggling, maybe even for the gun. One of the major factors in using deadly force is the ability to get away, if M was restrcting Z's ability to get away then Z may have more of a right (in a jury's mind) to use deadly force, since that is the law.

2) Can you cite this? I have not seen this reported anywhere. I wouldn't believe this at all. I would only believe what comes in to official testimony on APril 10th and what witnesses swear to under oath etc. Not to discount what you are saying, but I have not heard this anywhere yet, so I would like the source.

3) well you may or may not be right. It will be up to a jury to decide. For one thing, you may be wrong about him standing. For another thing, even if he is standing he may not be found guilty of murder because with murder you have to prove INTENT which can be very, very difficult..yes even if you shoot a gun at someone. Yet another thing would be if zimmerman stood up and tried to back off and martin came back at him....there are too many scenarios where what you say in #3 might not be true. In any case, I think a murder conviction based on just what I have seen so far is extremely unlikely, no matter what position they were in, unless Zimmerman was on top with martin on the ground or the bullet hole was in through the back and out through the chest. It is much more likely to be a lesser offense, I doubt the prosecution will even attempt a murder trial.
wow, next time i gun down a kid holding the skittles weapon of mass destruction i'll be sure to have you be my lawyer...

your legal expertise is awesomely fantastical...
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:46 PM   #1663
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wow, next time i gun down a kid holding the skittles weapon of mass destruction i'll be sure to have you be my lawyer...

your legal expertise is awesomely fantastical...
Next time I want the constitutional rights of a person who should be presumed innocent taken away I will look you up. Your racism and fascism is equally as 'fantastical' as my legal prowess.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:47 PM   #1664
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After fatally shooting Trayvon Martin, Florida community watch captain George Zimmerman "couldn't stop crying,'' according to a family friend who spoke with him Saturday.

"After this started – the reports I got – [Zimmerman] "couldn't stop crying,'' Joe Oliver told "Good Morning America" on Sunday.

Oliver, who said he is a close friend of the family, said Zimmerman has gone into hiding, fears for his life, and is "just now becoming aware of how big this has gotten."

Oliver, who has known Zimmerman for six years, said he has been in regular contact with members of Zimmerman's family, who have briefed him on Zimmerman's day-to-day reactions as the case has grown into a national referendum on race, gun laws and criminal justice.

On Saturday, the militant New Black Panther Party offered a $10,000 bounty for Zimmerman's "capture."

Trayvon Martin Case: Timeline of Events

On Friday, members of the Miami Heat basketball team dispatched Twitter pictures showing team members wearing "hoodies," apparently in solidarity with the family of Martin, who was wearing the popular hooded jacket when he was shot. Last week, President Obama weighed in on the controversial case, saying that if he had a son he would "look like" Trayvon Martin.

Craig Sonner, an attorney advising Zimmerman who appeared on "GMA" alongside Oliver, confirmed Oliver's relationship to the family.

On Saturday, Oliver said that in recent days Zimmerman has contacted a number of his friends, asking them to speak publicly in his defense, but that each of them declined his request, fearing for their own safety.

Zimmerman has not been charged with any crime.

The Justice Department and the FBI are investigating Zimmerman for possible civil rights violations, and a Seminole County grand jury will begin hearing evidence in the case on April 10.

Police who investigated the shooting said they found no evidence to refute Zimmerman's claims that he shot Martin in self-defense.

The investigation included a re-enactment of the shooting the following day, according to authorities. Florida law allows licensed gun owners to use deadly force if they fear their lives are in danger.

In the course of speaking with ABC News over the weekend, the emotional toll the case has taken on Oliver himself became evident when he stopped talking to remove his glasses and wipe his eyes.

He said he considers Zimmerman as close "as a son," and he's deeply frustrated by his inability to protect the 28-year- old from such searing public censure.

While increasingly concerned for his safety, Zimmerman nonetheless believes that in time he will be exonerated in the court of public opinion, Oliver said.

"Up until this point, because he was there and he knows what happened, and because he's not in jail, he's been very confident – naively – that this will all blow over,'' Oliver said on GMA.

"I think when the other 911 tapes are released, and the other evidence comes out, I think it will show clearly that George Zimmerman was acting in self defense,'' Oliver said. "The question is: how far did he pursue? Who made the initial contact? What started the confrontation in the first place? The fact that the investigation so far has come out the way it has – because of Sanford's history – I find it hard to believe that the Sanford Police Department wouldn't have George in jail now if they had one…piece [of evidence] to support that fact. George Zimmerman is not in jail because…they don't have the evidence to arrest him."

Florida's increasingly controversial "stand your ground" law was passed in 2005, eliminating the requirement that a person seek an alternative – like fleeing – before using force if they felt they were in physical danger.

The National Rifle Association and other advocates had argued that citizens were being arrested for merely defending themselves.

Florida, like many other states, has long held that citizens have the right to defend themselves in their own homes. Court rulings have expanded that right to include employees in workplaces and drivers in their cars. But there was long a reluctance to extend those rights to public places, so judges had ruled that citizens under threat must make some alternative attempt to violence to escape danger.

In 2005, the Florida House of Representatives voted 94-20 in favor of a new, 'stand your ground' bill that eliminated the requirement to flee.

The state Senate passed the bill 39-0, and Governor Jeb Bush signed it into law.

Martin was returning to a friend's home in the gated Florida community of Sanford on Feb. 26, where Zimmerman was acting as a neighborhood watchman when Zimmerman spotted him and called police, describing the teen as suspicious.

He began to follow Martin, and continued speaking with police, who warned him repeatedly not to approach Martin. Martin, meanwhile, was on the phone with a 16-year old female friend, who told ABC News that she urged Martin to run.

She said she heard some pushing, and then the line went dead.

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," the girl told ABC News. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run."

Zimmerman was reportedly charged with assault on a police officer in 2005, when he was 21, after a scuffle with police over the arrest of one of his friends for underage drinking in a local bar. He accepted a pre-trial diversion that kept him from being convicted of a felony – an outcome that might have prevented him from receiving a permit to carry a gun.

Sonner said he couldn't predict whether charges would eventually be filed against Zimmerman, but he is prepared for anything.

"It's going to the grand jury on April 10, and then the grand jury will make that decision at that time,'' Sonner said. "So they can file charges at any time - tomorrow is Monday - they can file tomorrow. Whether they will or not? Thus far they have not, and it is my contention, when all the evidence I believe is going to come forward, I think it clearly going to be a case of self-defense."

http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin...-abc-news.html
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