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Old 03-08-2012, 11:50 AM  
Bump Bump is offline
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

Last edited by Bump; 07-12-2013 at 11:19 PM..
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:42 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
In what universe can you detain someone for being a suspicious person?

Just in case that weird universe included the state of Florida, I went ahead and looked it up. It does not. In Florida, you can not detain someone or make a citizen's arrest unless you witness a felony.

You are just flat-out wrong here, and I'm not sure if there's any state where you'd be correct.
Trespassing on Private property is a Felony in Fl (Under some circumstances). He might have tried to make a citizens arrest after he got punched and taken to the ground.

PS: Not saying the white dude was in the right, nor am I saying the black guy was either.

I feel that both were at fault. (one paid with his life - the other should be held accountable, and should go through the legal process).

Unfortunate circumstance.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:48 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
That's actually pretty dad gummed interesting, Mr. Just Passin' By. Thanks for posting and passin' by. It helps to clarify a couple of things ... plus, I really didn't know the rules associated with citizen's arrests. This could come in very handy.

Although each State has its own statutes covering citizen's arrest principles (and some do not have any statute, whatsoever), it appears that the basic requirement is that the "citizen" must have witnessed a crime (and it looks like, in many States, said crime must be a felony).

I don't think that trespass is generally considered a felony, though. Nor, of course, is walking on a sidewalk carrying Skittles - concealed or otherwise.

Given that, since the kid wasn't trespassing, it's safe to say that the neighborhood watch guy did not witness a crime and, therefore, had no right to even temporarily detain the guy who is now, unfortunately, permanently detained.

A crime may have been committed after the initial encounter, of course (like, maybe, the now-dead guy might have smacked the neighborhood watch guy in the face), but that would have had to occur "after" the neighborhood watch guy had already attempted to detain the now-dead guy ... illegally.

I'm betting that what we have here is a case of a really, really stupid neighborhood watch guy.

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Old 03-08-2012, 04:49 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlos3652 View Post
Trespassing on Private property is a Felony in Fl (Under some circumstances). He might have tried to make a citizens arrest after he got punched and taken to the ground.

PS: Not saying the white dude was in the right, nor am I saying the black guy was either.

I feel that both were at fault. (one paid with his life - the other should be held accountable, and should go through the legal process).

Unfortunate circumstance.
What circumstances might those be, Mr. carlos3652?

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Old 03-08-2012, 04:50 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAX View Post
That's actually pretty dad gummed interesting, Mr. Just Passin' By. Thanks for posting and passin' by. It helps to clarify a couple of things ... plus, I really didn't know the rules associated with citizen's arrests. This could come in very handy.

Although each State has its own statutes covering citizen's arrest principles (and some do not have any statute, whatsoever), it appears that the basic requirement is that the "citizen" must have witnessed a crime (and it looks like, in many States, said crime must be a felony).

I don't think that trespass is generally considered a felony, though. Nor, of course, is walking on a sidewalk carrying Skittles - concealed or otherwise.

Given that, since the kid wasn't trespassing, it's safe to say that the neighborhood watch guy did not witness a crime and, therefore, had no right to even temporarily detain the guy who is now, unfortunately, permanently detained.

A crime may have been committed after the initial encounter, of course (like, maybe, the now-dead guy might have smacked the neighborhood watch guy in the face), but that would have had to occur "after" the neighborhood watch guy had already attempted to detain the now-dead guy ... illegally.

I'm betting that what we have here is a case of a really, really stupid neighborhood watch guy.

FAX
That's what I've been saying all along.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:55 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Passin' By View Post
"presumably guilty party". Yeah, nice try.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:55 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by frazod View Post
Right. Because if you're on the ground and some stranger is BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF YOU, you're just supposed to remain level-headed and assume that he'll stop at some point, because, well, he just will. Right. "Excuse me, sir. Could you please confirm that your intent here is to only beat the crap out of me, not cripple, permanently maim or kill me? Thanks buddy!"

****. Some of the shit being posted in this thread....
Tell you what, if your defense for using deadly force is, "Well, I was losing the fight, but I wasn't really in fear that he might kill me," you're going to prison.
But you got it figured out, lil Dane. If you want to kill someone just start a fight, let them punch you three or four times, then shoot them.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:01 PM   #247
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I know this area.... very upity. However I don't see how it isn't murder.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:02 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by FAX View Post
What circumstances might those be, Mr. carlos3652?

FAX
Florida has two situations where trespassing becomes a felony offense in and of itself. The first is when the trespasser has a firearm while on private property, but the other is related to the deadly projectile rules under Florida criminal law.

They are misdemeanors otherwise.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:06 PM   #249
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I don't want to assume anything, but I think both handled the situation poorly. Again, unfortunate - and the reason that this is not murder, is because of the beating the NW dude received. - I can see this coming down to Self Defense/ Involuntary Manslaughter at worst for the white guy.


PS Not a lawyer - but familiar with reasonable doubt.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:08 PM   #250
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Scenario based off this

Quote:
Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.
Obviously this was not his normal hood. For all we know, this kid is a wanna be thug who the NWC saw commit a crime/s. He was there VISITING his father. Now no racial anything intended here... this is just good old fashioned broken home shit but there is a good change that dad was letting Nintendo do the heavy lifting in this visit.

NWC approaches the kid and things get out of control quickly. Kid bows up like a beast and NWC is a pussy that can't handle a 17 year old kid. NWC gets wailed on and tries to defend himself but he is getting torn up. He fears for his life. He shoots.

Either way... NWC is a ****ing moron and caused this whole situation to happen at all. Manslaughter at the LEAST.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:11 PM   #251
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Not really. Ive had many black friends and they all liked fried chicken. Every one of them.
Quoted for truth! Stereotypes don't come about unless they actually happen, and in mass. This myth that stereotypes are false is retarded. There are exceptions but not many.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:11 PM   #252
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I had a friend in high school who was a bit of a hothead. He got into a road rage incident with an older guy. They both pull over. Friend ends up shot in the throat and dies.

My friend got out of his car proceeded to the other guy's car, argument ensues, my friend loses his temper, starts punching other guy in the face. Guy pulls out his gun and shoots. Self-defense. Jury agreed.

I can see this happening just like it did with my friend.
Yeah......because two hot heads pulling over and arguing is just like some NHW stopping some random kid because he is black and in the "wrong neighborhood."
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:13 PM   #253
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Quoted for truth! Stereotypes don't come about unless they actually happen, and in mass. This myth that stereotypes are false is retarded. There are exceptions but not many.

Not surprised you would think this way....keeping shucking and jivin.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:13 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pr_capone View Post
Scenario based off this



Obviously this was not his normal hood. For all we know, this kid is a wanna be thug who the NWC saw commit a crime/s. He was there VISITING his father. Now no racial anything intended here... this is just good old fashioned broken home shit but there is a good change that dad was letting Nintendo do the heavy lifting in this visit.

NWC approaches the kid and things get out of control quickly. Kid bows up like a beast and NWC is a pussy that can't handle a 17 year old kid. NWC gets wailed on and tries to defend himself but he is getting torn up. He fears for his life. He shoots.

Either way... NWC is a ****ing moron and caused this whole situation to happen at all. Manslaughter at the LEAST.
That is a lot of conjecture. I can't prove it untrue, but I find the whole situation unlikely. If his dad is wealthy enough to live in a gated community I doubt his mom is living in squalor in the ghetto.

I'll also point out that there is no reason to simply assume this kid got indignant, but everyone is jumping to this conclusion. It's possible, but I see no reason why everyone assumes it. I find it just as likely he acted in fear.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:14 PM   #255
Al Bundy Al Bundy is offline
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Bolded part is wrong, he was visiting his grandparents who I assume are also black.

Secondly, you are wrong about pretty much the entire rest of your post as well.
The kid doesn't have to wait for the cops. The guy is just a guy who happens to live there. If I know I belong where I am walking I am not sticking around because some guy that isn't a police officer tells me to.
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