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Old 03-08-2012, 11:50 AM  
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

Last edited by Bump; 07-12-2013 at 11:19 PM..
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:25 PM   #2626
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Originally Posted by frankotank View Post
IF T was on top of Z beating his head into concrete....IF Z hadn't shot him....I wonder if T would have killed Z??
Did you see how I said "had to be"?
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:53 PM   #2627
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Not that I am a fan of Tyler Perry to begin with but this dude just sounds like an idiot on this video...

http://cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/...iling.cnn.html

It wouldn't embed for some reason.

27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000" id="ep">
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:23 PM   #2628
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I think you need to think about it. Zimmerman had just as much right to walk around that neighborhood that night as Martin did. Get out of here with your hero complex armchair psychology.

I wouldn't want my petite daughter walking alone on a hiking trail through the woods of our local park at night because of the danger potential. That shouldn't mean that a guy who is big enough to take care of himself in a fight or a guy who is armed with a weapon and concealed carry permit can't walk that trail knowing that they can come out fists/guns blazing if things go south.
I think you need to think about what a reasonable reaction would be to a large, creepy stranger in YOUR neck of the woods tracking you down in a dark area. And you had no idea why.

Following somebody doesn't give Trayvon the right to assault Zimmerman, but if Trayvon had no idea why Zimmerman was following him and felt threatened, then self defense laws apply. And that's assuming Zimmerman didn't do anything to provoke Martin. Isn't it entirely possible Zimmerman verbally assaulted Martin, shoved him, or even flashed his gun out to prove to him he was serious?

Given the location of the altercation, it's a more than reasonable question to ask.
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:28 PM   #2629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Following somebody doesn't give Trayvon the right to assault Zimmerman, but if Trayvon had no idea why Zimmerman was following him and felt threatened, then self defense laws apply. And that's assuming Zimmerman didn't do anything to provoke Martin. Isn't it entirely possible Zimmerman verbally assaulted Martin, shoved him, or even flashed his gun out to prove to him he was serious?

Given the location of the altercation, it's a more than reasonable question to ask.
You need to get off this line of thinking, unless you actually believe it, in which case you are defending the wrong guy.

Saying "he was being stalked and got scared" or "he was provoked by naughty words" doesn't fly. If he flashed his gun, thats different, but if Zimmerman hypothetically was stalking him and said something Trayvon didn't like, and from that Trayvon attacked and began to bash his head in... then yes, in that case deadly force is absolutely justified. You have every right to walk wherever the hell you want in public property, and you have an absolute right to be a jerk.

I'm not defending Zimmerman because I don't buy the story that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman 70 yards from his house, after he initially tried to get away. I think Zimmerman tried to hold him for the cops, Trayvon yelled for help and fought back, and all hell broke loose, in which case Zimmerman should be in jail.
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:30 PM   #2630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
I think you need to think about what a reasonable reaction would be to a large, creepy stranger in YOUR neck of the woods tracking you down in a dark area. And you had no idea why.

Following somebody doesn't give Trayvon the right to assault Zimmerman, but if Trayvon had no idea why Zimmerman was following him and felt threatened, then self defense laws apply. And that's assuming Zimmerman didn't do anything to provoke Martin. Isn't it entirely possible Zimmerman verbally assaulted Martin, shoved him, or even flashed his gun out to prove to him he was serious?

Given the location of the altercation, it's a more than reasonable question to ask.
The problem is that we have ZERO clue on this... if Trayvon ambushed him... sorry but he got what he deserved.. cold but true.. If Zimmerman provoked him with a shove or an overt threat.. then Zimmerman needs to AT LEAST be charged with manslaughter if not outright murder.

Right now, NO ONE outside of Zimmerman can even make a GUESS as to what happened. And of course you can't trust Zimmerman's word if he truly is a murderer.
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:33 PM   #2631
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
The problem is that we have ZERO clue on this... if Trayvon ambushed him... sorry but he got what he deserved.. cold but true.. If Zimmerman provoked him with a shove or an overt threat.. then Zimmerman needs to AT LEAST be charged with manslaughter if not outright murder.

Right now, NO ONE outside of Zimmerman can even make a GUESS as to what happened. And of course you can't trust Zimmerman's word if he truly is a murderer.
and thats the problem. (a problem we can't, and shouldn't fix because its the best system we've got) A jury will say "we think he's probably guilty, but we had to vote not guilty".

There's no evidence. Nothing to explain what happened, and nothing (other than logic and common sense) showing that Zimmerman is a liar.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:01 PM   #2632
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
The problem is that we have ZERO clue on this... if Trayvon ambushed him... sorry but he got what he deserved.. cold but true.. If Zimmerman provoked him with a shove or an overt threat.. then Zimmerman needs to AT LEAST be charged with manslaughter if not outright murder.

Right now, NO ONE outside of Zimmerman can even make a GUESS as to what happened. And of course you can't trust Zimmerman's word if he truly is a murderer.
But what is Martin's motive for attacking GZ unprovoked?

We know GZ has a motive to try and detain Martin.

"these assholes always get away"
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:11 PM   #2633
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
The problem is that we have ZERO clue on this... if Trayvon ambushed him... sorry but he got what he deserved.. cold but true.. If Zimmerman provoked him with a shove or an overt threat.. then Zimmerman needs to AT LEAST be charged with manslaughter if not outright murder.

Right now, NO ONE outside of Zimmerman can even make a GUESS as to what happened. And of course you can't trust Zimmerman's word if he truly is a murderer.
We have a good clue that Zimmerman claims he was on his way back to the truck, yet ended up in a location that was NOT on the way to his truck. We have a good clue that Martin was running toward home, yet ended up in a spot that was away from his path home (though, you can't rule out Zimmerman running on a sidewalk and cutting into the courtyard and cutting Trayvon off). Very likely both ended up getting hot-headed and starting a confrontation they should have backed away from. The reason why this becomes important is because Zimmerman has an account of the story; Trayvon, obviously, does not. So if Zimmerman's story doesn't hang together, it's fair to question his motivation for not telling the truth.

But again, the biggest culprit in all of this is the police. We would be asking a lot less of these questions if they did their job.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:14 PM   #2634
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
I think you need to think about what a reasonable reaction would be to a large, creepy stranger in YOUR neck of the woods tracking you down in a dark area. And you had no idea why.
Actually it isnt Martin's neck of the woods. It isn't even his fathers house. It is his father's girlfriends house. Trayvon just got there, as he was suspended from school for 10 days. HE was the stranger. It was Z's neck of the woods....you got it backwards.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:14 PM   #2635
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Not that I am a fan of Tyler Perry to begin with but this dude just sounds like an idiot on this video...

http://cnn.com/video/data/perry-raci...iling.cnn.html

It wouldn't embed for some reason.

Basically what he's saying is he's never experienced discrimination, but he's just trying to get in on all the manufactured outrage.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:18 PM   #2636
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Actually it isnt Martin's neck of the woods. It isn't even his fathers house. It is his father's girlfriends house. Trayvon just got there, as he was suspended from school for 10 days. HE was the stranger. It was Z's neck of the woods....you got it backwards.
We're on page 176 of this thing and his biggest supporters are just finding that out now.

Bottom line, from the time Zimmy lost him, to the time when the "fight" occured, Martin had sufficient time to get to the dad's girlfriends house.

I'm sure that fact will go over real well in the courtroom for Trayvon Inc. crew.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:22 PM   #2637
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Right now, NO ONE outside of Zimmerman can even make a GUESS as to what happened. And of course you can't trust Zimmerman's word if he truly is a murderer.
Even if we don't know exactly what happened, it is still possible to use logic to deduce Z is not a murderer. Unless he intended to kill Martin, he is not a murderer, as murder requires intent.

Its the same idea I suppose, but the most he probably is would be a man slaughterer.....which is still pretty harsh in Florida.

But luckily for him, he won't have the burden of proof. He will just need to present a case of reasonable doubt....showing he was justified using deadly force. Both Stand your ground AND the standard self defense laws will be helpful. Even if we ignore stand your ground, the evidence suggesting Martin was on top, pounding his head , with Zim unable to flee would possibly be enough in many people's minds (jurors) to justify use of force.
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:26 PM   #2638
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IF T was on top of Z beating his head into concrete....IF Z hadn't shot him....I wonder if T would have killed Z??
Who knows? I wonder if he would have been suspended if pot was legal?
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:28 PM   #2639
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Even if we don't know exactly what happened, it is still possible to use logic to deduce Z is not a murderer. Unless he intended to kill Martin, he is not a murderer, as murder requires intent.

Its the same idea I suppose, but the most he probably is would be a man slaughterer.....which is still pretty harsh in Florida.

But luckily for him, he won't have the burden of proof. He will just need to present a case of reasonable doubt....showing he was justified using deadly force. Both Stand your ground AND the standard self defense laws will be helpful. Even if we ignore stand your ground, the evidence suggesting Martin was on top, pounding his head , with Zim unable to flee would possibly be enough in many people's minds (jurors) to justify use of force.
I still believe a key burden of proof in this case is whether Zimmerman's account is accurate. If it's not, it's reasonable to question what he's hiding. There are a few very key questions to ask. #1 - if he was truly going to Target, as he claims, then why was he carrying a gun? #2 - now... what we heard in his original account was that he exited his vehicle to check for street signs, and yet he ends up some 10-15 minutes away from his car. If Zimmerman actually made that statement, that's going to be an interesting one to qualify. #3 - Was Zimmerman walking back to his car as he suggests? Because based on where the confrontation took place, it sure doesn't seem that way. #4 - There will never be a way to prove this. But you have to question whether a man with the history he has of snapping, just stood there calmly as Trayvon asked him what the **** he was doing. Legally, fine. For me? It's hard to buy. #5 - if Zimmerman reached for his phone when Trayvon confronted him, as he claims, did Trayvon have reasonable fear to think Zimmerman was reaching for a gun?

Here's another key question, and I don't know the answer to this. But what are the implications of the fact that Zimmerman underwent Neighborhood Watch training and broke three cardinal rules that are clearly stated in their manual? 1) he was not to carry a weapon; 2) he was not to approach the Trayvon; 3) he called 911, which is not who you're supposed to call. Just as a question, does his training hold him to a higher degree of care?
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:54 PM   #2640
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Can we all begin to agree that just some people are assholes despite color? And for ever asshole there's a good person?

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