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Old 03-08-2012, 11:50 AM  
Bump Bump is offline
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

Last edited by Bump; 07-12-2013 at 11:19 PM..
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:29 PM   #3121
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Wrong.....

Asking someone what they're doing in your neighborhood is not 'drastic' nor over stepping any boundaries. Punching someone is though. Attacking someone is.
What did Zimmerman say to Martin? I really don't know. If all he did was ask what Martin was doing, then Martin just suddenly attacked, he sounds like he was going to attack someone sooner or later for nothing more than looking at him the wrong way, and would probably end up in jail. It would've been better for all involved if it were the police asking Matin what he's doing there. I'm sure Zimmerman agrees.

Still, it's sad for both sides no matter what really happened.
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:42 PM   #3122
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Originally Posted by Messier View Post
What did Zimmerman say to Martin? I really don't know. If all he did was ask what Martin was doing, then Martin just suddenly attacked, he sounds like he was going to attack someone sooner or later for nothing more than looking at him the wrong way, and would probably end up in jail. It would've been better for all involved if it were the police asking Matin what he's doing there. I'm sure Zimmerman agrees.

Still, it's sad for both sides no matter what really happened.
I think Z said "what are you doing in this neighborhood" (martin didn't live there, he was visiting his father's girlfriend's house)

Then M said, "why are you following me"

-------
I believe those are the only two known statements....Z claims M started the fight after saying something like 'you got a problem' and Z claims to have said 'no' then Z claims M said 'well you got one now' and started the fight. I believe just the 1st two sentences are recorded via the 911 call though, above the ---.

The problem for the prosecution is they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Z started the fight for them to get murder 2. He has to also be shown to have a 'depraved' sense of carelessness for human life. Thats going to be rather difficult IMO.

I also agree with your other takes on the case, and have posted almost the xact same thing....very sad and I am sure Zimmerman regrets using his weapon.
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:39 PM   #3123
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Wrong.....

Asking someone what they're doing in your neighborhood is not 'drastic' nor over stepping any boundaries. Punching someone is though. Attacking someone is.
Zimmerman was specifically trained to NOT pursue suspicious persons. He was specifically told to only be the eyes and ears of the police. We can't view him as an ordinary citizen patrolling his neighborhood. We're talking about a person who absolutely, positively knew his boundaries. If he was also informed not to carry a gun while on patrol, that's a huge double whammy.

The minute he got out of his car to pursue Trayvon Martin, he was overstepping his boundaries. Unless, that is, he has specific proof that Martin was doing something that required immediate action. That's going to be extremely difficult to prove given that Martin was unarmed, was not on drugs, and was clearly on a path to end up at an appropriate destination.
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:00 PM   #3124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Wrong.....

Asking someone what they're doing in your neighborhood is not 'drastic' nor over stepping any boundaries. Punching someone is though. Attacking someone is.
Also when did it become illegal to keep your eye on suspicious people? WTF were neighborhood watch programs put in place for... Would TM had busted a 70 year old man out walking his dog in the face for "watching him" ?

Where did this kid think he had the right to commit a felony assault on this man for "watching him"

I wonder exactly how close GZ got to him to begin with. If that dude was that lean and long legged , there is no way GZ could have kept up with him.
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:06 PM   #3125
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
Also when did it become illegal to keep your eye on suspicious people? WTF were neighborhood watch programs put in place for... Would TM had busted a 70 year old man out walking his dog in the face for "watching him" ?

Where did this kid think he had the right to commit a felony assault on this man for "watching him"

I wonder exactly how close GZ got to him to begin with. If that dude was that lean and long legged , there is no way GZ could have kept up with him.
You are making the assumption that all Zimmerman did was politely ask him what he was doing. There's little to justify Trayvon's extreme reaction, but there are a million reasonable possibilities to justify why Trayvon may have reacted.
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:24 PM   #3126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
You are making the assumption that all Zimmerman did was politely ask him what he was doing. There's little to justify Trayvon's extreme reaction, but there are a million reasonable possibilities to justify why Trayvon may have reacted.

No matter how he asked him did not give him the authority to pound his head in the concrete...

Do you think GZ grabbed TM or threatened his life?
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:38 PM   #3127
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
No matter how he asked him did not give him the authority to pound his head in the concrete...

Do you think GZ grabbed TM or threatened his life?
Like I said, it's hard to justify the over-reaction on Trayvon's part.

I don't think we'll be able to legally prove what happened, unless somehow we do have phone records that have not yet been released. But if I'm making an educated guess, yes, the facts lead me to the OPINION that Zimmerman provoked Trayvon confrontationally, based on Zimmerman's state of mind and history of provoking confrontations and reacting violently when pushed.

Yes, I think there are plenty of plausible scenarios... that he threatened Trayvon. That he grabbed Trayvon or shoved him. That maybe he walked up to Trayvon calmly, Zimmerman reacted, and Trayvon defended himself in the heat of the moment. Again, these are all assumptions, but there are just as many scenarios that say Trayvon did it for no good reason as there are that he was reasonably provoked.
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:10 PM   #3128
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Here is how I think it went down...

I don't think GZ or many people for that matter would have the balls to approach a 6 ft 3 dude in the dark with a hoodie. He could have been armed too. I think he followed him slowly in the car at first, and that annoyed TM, I think TM figured he would cut thru the apt's to get away, I think GZ got out and walked a little to see where he had gone and decided he had lost him and turned around to go back to his vehicle, I think TM thought about it, and felt he was looking like a punk for running from this guy so he doubled back and met GZ somewhere close to his vehicle, he asked GZ did he have a problem, a startled GZ said no, and TM said you do now and punched him in the face and jumped on him. Then the rage got the better of him, maybe he had been told all of his life that all people not of his race were bad people who knows but this kid went into a rage, slamming GZ's head atleast 3 times into the concrete, GZ then determined he would have to defend himself or possibly die.
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:24 PM   #3129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
Also when did it become illegal to keep your eye on suspicious people? WTF were neighborhood watch programs put in place for... Would TM had busted a 70 year old man out walking his dog in the face for "watching him" ?

Where did this kid think he had the right to commit a felony assault on this man for "watching him"

I wonder exactly how close GZ got to him to begin with. If that dude was that lean and long legged , there is no way GZ could have kept up with him.
This thread is 3100 plus posts long with the first page looking identical to the last.

It makes me want to have someone pound my head on the concrete.
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:26 PM   #3130
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
Here is how I think it went down...

I don't think GZ or many people for that matter would have the balls to approach a 6 ft 3 dude in the dark with a hoodie. He could have been armed too. I think he followed him slowly in the car at first, and that annoyed TM, I think TM figured he would cut thru the apt's to get away, I think GZ got out and walked a little to see where he had gone and decided he had lost him and turned around to go back to his vehicle, I think TM thought about it, and felt he was looking like a punk for running from this guy so he doubled back and met GZ somewhere close to his vehicle, he asked GZ did he have a problem, a startled GZ said no, and TM said you do now and punched him in the face and jumped on him. Then the rage got the better of him, maybe he had been told all of his life that all people not of his race were bad people who knows but this kid went into a rage, slamming GZ's head atleast 3 times into the concrete, GZ then determined he would have to defend himself or possibly die.
Did Martin have a history of assault? If so it'd be much easier to believe he attacked Zimmerman without provocation.
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:26 PM   #3131
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Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
This thread is 3100 plus posts long with the first page looking identical to the last.

It makes me want to have someone pound my head on the concrete.
You are right... it does...
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:27 PM   #3132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
Here is how I think it went down...

I don't think GZ or many people for that matter would have the balls to approach a 6 ft 3 dude in the dark with a hoodie. He could have been armed too. I think he followed him slowly in the car at first, and that annoyed TM, I think TM figured he would cut thru the apt's to get away, I think GZ got out and walked a little to see where he had gone and decided he had lost him and turned around to go back to his vehicle, I think TM thought about it, and felt he was looking like a punk for running from this guy so he doubled back and met GZ somewhere close to his vehicle, he asked GZ did he have a problem, a startled GZ said no, and TM said you do now and punched him in the face and jumped on him. Then the rage got the better of him, maybe he had been told all of his life that all people not of his race were bad people who knows but this kid went into a rage, slamming GZ's head atleast 3 times into the concrete, GZ then determined he would have to defend himself or possibly die.
The only problem I have is when he got out of his car he had a gun. He was attempting to confront another man. Nobody armed with a gun goes into a confrontation without knowing the weapon is in play. I am fairly sure as you said a man his size is not going to face a guy that size unless he knows how to handle himself in a fight...or in this case has a gun. I will wait for the facts to come out. The whole circus with the worthless shitbags jumping on this as a racist killing is sickening. However I do think it is a case that needs to be looked at. I think the guy had some cowboy in him due to the fact he had a gun. Without it he most likely stays in the car and let's the cops handle it~
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:29 PM   #3133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Messier View Post
Did Martin have a history of assault? If so it'd be much easier to believe he attacked Zimmerman without provocation.
The teen was suspended from school three times
He was on suspension when he was shot in February, after officials caught him with a 'marijuana pipe' and a baggie with drug residue
Trayvon was kicked out of school in October for graffiti after he was allegedly caught with a 'burglary tool' and a bag full of women's jewelry
Officials also suspended him once for skipping school and tardiness


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1so6J1967

That's all I have read
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:33 PM   #3134
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Like I said, it's hard to justify the over-reaction on Trayvon's part.

I don't think we'll be able to legally prove what happened, unless somehow we do have phone records that have not yet been released. But if I'm making an educated guess, yes, the facts lead me to the OPINION that Zimmerman provoked Trayvon confrontationally, based on Zimmerman's state of mind and history of provoking confrontations and reacting violently when pushed.

Yes, I think there are plenty of plausible scenarios... that he threatened Trayvon. That he grabbed Trayvon or shoved him. That maybe he walked up to Trayvon calmly, Zimmerman reacted, and Trayvon defended himself in the heat of the moment. Again, these are all assumptions, but there are just as many scenarios that say Trayvon did it for no good reason as there are that he was reasonably provoked.
Well then, it's obvious we should send Zimmerman to prison for the rest of his life based on your assumptions.
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:35 PM   #3135
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
The only problem I have is when he got out of his car he had a gun. He was attempting to confront another man. Nobody armed with a gun goes into a confrontation without knowing the weapon is in play. I am fairly sure as you said a man his size is not going to face a guy that size unless he knows how to handle himself in a fight...or in this case has a gun. I will wait for the facts to come out. The whole circus with the worthless shitbags jumping on this as a racist killing is sickening. However I do think it is a case that needs to be looked at. I think the guy had some cowboy in him due to the fact he had a gun. Without it he most likely stays in the car and let's the cops handle it~
I don't think he even got out of his car until he lost site of him to try to be a hero to the cops and tell them where he was at...

I don't think GZ had the balls to confront him, and I don't think he had the balls to even assault him with or without a gun.

A gun is supposed to be comforting, when you are in an area that is suspect to you... I know damn well when I go into the 7-11 at 2 am getting a Slurpee, I feel alot better about having my Glock if a scumbag decides he wants my Slurpee
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