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Old 03-08-2012, 12:50 PM  
Bump Bump is offline
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

Last edited by Bump; 07-13-2013 at 12:19 AM..
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Old 05-19-2012, 06:18 PM   #3376
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Originally Posted by jspchief View Post

I'm not sure even manslaughter isn't too much of a charge. But there has to be legal restraints to discourage people from placing themselves in positions they have to shoot their way out of.
I think you have it quite wrong.....It is up to the PROSECUTION to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman committed a crime. Asking someone what they are doing, even 'confronting' them by saying 'hey stop, what are you doing here' is not a crime. Punching someone, however is a crime.

So far, I think what Zimmerman supporters are saying is - you should have the right to approach strangers in your neighborhood, ask them what they're doing, and NOT get assaulted.

I have yet to see any shred of evidence showing zimmerman assaulted martin.

THAT is what zimmerman supporters are saying.
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:33 PM   #3377
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Originally Posted by Bump View Post
This is some ****ED UP SHIT, they aren't sure if the racist neighborhood watch idiot should be arrested? If anything, local gangs might take notice of this and start shooting up that neighborhood or just random white neighborhoods. I could never live in the south, it's ridiculous.
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Old 05-20-2012, 02:00 AM   #3378
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
I certainly am not in the Martin camp. However the kid he killed life is ruined. Zimmerman can move on and rebuild his life. It pisses me off that this will lead to riots, and that worthless shitbags took advantage of this situation. That said I hope those who choose to pack a gun grasp that doing so can lead to something like this. I have no issue with the right to carry, nor the right to defend yourself. I do pickup a cowboy attitude from some who carry. Kind of like some people I have crossed in life that get a power trip on when given authority. Most have met a guy who was a dork or whatever and became a cop or boss and turned into Johnny Badass. Some who have conceal and carry strike me similar~
MY friend, that is human nature. There will always be someone who takes a position of authority or even simple responsibility farther than it should be. I understand your concern though when the people with the giant dorito on their shoulder are packing nines.
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:50 AM   #3379
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
I think you have it quite wrong.....It is up to the PROSECUTION to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman committed a crime. Asking someone what they are doing, even 'confronting' them by saying 'hey stop, what are you doing here' is not a crime. Punching someone, however is a crime.

So far, I think what Zimmerman supporters are saying is - you should have the right to approach strangers in your neighborhood, ask them what they're doing, and NOT get assaulted.

I have yet to see any shred of evidence showing zimmerman assaulted martin.

THAT is what zimmerman supporters are saying.
You're right. In a court of law there is not a shred of evidence to suggest Zimmerman did anything wrong. Yet.

In a courtyard of public opinion, here is enough background about George Zimmerman to logically conclude he probably did not handle himself well. Did police specifically tell him never to pursue a suspect? Yes. Once in his training and on the phone that day. Did he racially profile? Doesn't look good, given that you have one coworker claiming he's a racist and racially charged myspace comments as well. Did he approach trayvon appropriately? We can guess no, given that one ex coworker claimed he threw a woman while on security because she was drunk. Given that one resident accused him of stalking him all the way to his house. Given that he has multiple incidents on his track ecord for handling situaons like an aggressive meathead. Does he have motive? He wanted badly to be a cop. Probably wanted to be a hero. So he tried to do a cops job.

Piece it together. You have an aggressive meathead, who is racially insensitive, patrolling the streets with a gun trying to do the polices job. Even though the police never wanted him to do their job. What should he have done? 1. Stay in he car. 2 people told him so. 2. The cop who said he was guilty of manslaughter said he should have boldly declared he is a concerned citizen. It didn't sound like he did that at all.

The key implication is that citizens shouldn't be cops and this is why.
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Old 05-20-2012, 07:54 AM   #3380
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
I certainly am not in the Martin camp. However the kid he killed life is ruined. Zimmerman can move on and rebuild his life. It pisses me off that this will lead to riots, and that worthless shitbags took advantage of this situation. That said I hope those who choose to pack a gun grasp that doing so can lead to something like this. I have no issue with the right to carry, nor the right to defend yourself. I do pickup a cowboy attitude from some who carry. Kind of like some people I have crossed in life that get a power trip on when given authority. Most have met a guy who was a dork or whatever and became a cop or boss and turned into Johnny Badass. Some who have conceal and carry strike me similar~
I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

No badass here & never the aggressor but assault me, try to rob me, try to hurt one of my family members and you will be shot.. It's that simple. I never show my concealed carry to anyone, I have never had to pull my concealed weapon on anyone or even close to it... I have gotten into heated arguments with people while carrying and never once did I think of shooting the person...

Bottom line is, don't put your hands on people.. I don't
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Old 05-20-2012, 08:10 AM   #3381
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

No badass here & never the aggressor but assault me, try to rob me, try to hurt one of my family members and you will be shot.. It's that simple. I never show my concealed carry to anyone, I have never had to pull my concealed weapon on anyone or even close to it... I have gotten into heated arguments with people while carrying and never once did I think of shooting the person...

Bottom line is, don't put your hands on people.. I don't
What if this situation started because zimmerman, say, grabbed Trayvon's shoulder.

This situation feels different because no question zimmerman reacted appropriately and luckily he was armed. The question is, should you carry a gun, and start shit, and and use your gun if you get in trouble? Or should you have some responsibility when you carry. Everything about Zimmerman makes me cringe that this kind of guy is carrying a gun and trying to act like a cop when he has zero training on how to diffuse a situation appropriately.
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Old 05-20-2012, 08:25 AM   #3382
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
F

What if this situation started because zimmerman, say, grabbed Trayvon's shoulder.

This situation feels different because no question zimmerman reacted appropriately and luckily he was armed. The question is, should you carry a gun, and start shit, and and use your gun if you get in trouble? Or should you have some responsibility when you carry. Everything about Zimmerman makes me cringe that this kind of guy is carrying a gun and trying to act like a cop when he has zero training on how to diffuse a situation appropriately.
If he grabbed his shoulder then yes, punch him in the nose.... But is Trayvon justified to pound a mans head in the concrete for grabbing his shoulder?
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:08 AM   #3383
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If he grabbed his shoulder then yes, punch him in the nose.... But is Trayvon justified to pound a mans head in the concrete for grabbing his shoulder?
I never said he was. He probably overreacted.

But let's play a hypothetical game. If Zimmerman threatened or physically touched trayvon in any way, is there reason to believe trayvon if startled has a right to self defense too? Put yourself in the shoes of a guy being creepy pursued by some stranger. If he came within earshot of you, most of us would become defensive. What if trayvon knew zimmerman was carrying a gun? Doesn't that up the ante for how you defend yourself? What if the tussle on the ground was instigated by zimmerman and trayvon was banging his head off the concrete in self defense? All these are hypothecals. But there are lots of reasons why he could have been justified. Could.

The bigger point is, you have an armed man within punching distance of a stranger who was unarmed. Did zimmerman put himself within earshot or did trayvon approach him? Well, we know zimmerman had no business ever leaving the car. It seems that never in any of this did zimmerman announce that he was an on duty patrol person. So yes, you have trayvon viewing he situation as a strange man stalking him in the dark. There are a bunch of ways zimmerman broke protocol and created a situation hat never needed to be created. He had no idea what he was doing. If you carry a gun on patrol, don't put yourself in a situation where the guy you're trailing perceives you as a threat.

I trust you are a responsible gun owner. You talk intelligently about the rules. If I were you I'd be embarrassed that Zimmerman represents gun owners. Here are some who use it to protect themselves. Zimmerman strikes me as a guy who creates reasons to use it.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:13 AM   #3384
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
I think you have it quite wrong.....It is up to the PROSECUTION to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman committed a crime. Asking someone what they are doing, even 'confronting' them by saying 'hey stop, what are you doing here' is not a crime. Punching someone, however is a crime.

So far, I think what Zimmerman supporters are saying is - you should have the right to approach strangers in your neighborhood, ask them what they're doing, and NOT get assaulted.

I have yet to see any shred of evidence showing zimmerman assaulted martin.

THAT is what zimmerman supporters are saying.
I am a supporter of the truth and just like you I hadn't up to a few minutes ago seen any evidence that Zimmerman assaulted Martin. Until I read the girlfriend's account that she told the police and prosecuter. According to her story it sounds like Zimmerman tried to subdue Martin.

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Trayvon Martin's girlfriend told a prosecutor that minutes before the Florida teen was shot, he sounded “scared” on the phone and told someone to “get off, get off.”

The girl, whose name has not been released, said the 17-year-old had told her he was being tailed by a “white man” — presumably neighborhood watchman George Zimmmerman.

“He was breathing hard. [His] voice kinda changed. I know he was scared. [His] voice was getting low,” the girl said in the taped April 2 interview about the Feb. 26 shooting.

She said she heard Martin say, “Why you following me for?” and a man respond, “What you doing around here?”
There was silence and then she heard Martin say, “Get off” at least twice before the call ended.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:38 AM   #3385
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Originally Posted by jspchief View Post

I'm not sure even manslaughter isn't too much of a charge. But there has to be legal restraints to discourage people from placing themselves in positions they have to shoot their way out of.

I think they are going to try to scare him into taking a plea of manslaughter.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:41 AM   #3386
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I think they are going to try to scare him into taking a plea of manslaughter.
At this point they shouldn't expect a plea at all. Sounding more and more like he is innocent
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:51 AM   #3387
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I think they are going to try to scare him into taking a plea of manslaughter.
Perhaps stalking.
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:46 AM   #3388
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

No badass here & never the aggressor but assault me, try to rob me, try to hurt one of my family members and you will be shot.. It's that simple. I never show my concealed carry to anyone, I have never had to pull my concealed weapon on anyone or even close to it... I have gotten into heated arguments with people while carrying and never once did I think of shooting the person...

Bottom line is, don't put your hands on people.. I don't
Fair enough. I don't feel the need to carry a gun. I keep one at the house. I grew up in a rough area and have always been aware of the situations I was in. Avoiding trouble is rather easy. At this point in my life I never find myself in situations where a gun is needed. If on the small chance I end up in a bad situation I will rely on my ability to defend myself~
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Old 05-20-2012, 11:56 AM   #3389
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
Fair enough. I don't feel the need to carry a gun. I keep one at the house. I grew up in a rough area and have always been aware of the situations I was in. Avoiding trouble is rather easy. At this point in my life I never find myself in situations where a gun is needed. If on the small chance I end up in a bad situation I will rely on my ability to defend myself~
I hope you are able to if 4 people jump out of a car with baseball bats and decide you need to be a victim today because you are old or white or look like you may have a dollar in your pocket.

Odds are this will never happen to me or you, I hope not
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Old 05-20-2012, 12:01 PM   #3390
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
I never said he was. He probably overreacted.

But let's play a hypothetical game. If Zimmerman threatened or physically touched trayvon in any way, is there reason to believe trayvon if startled has a right to self defense too? Put yourself in the shoes of a guy being creepy pursued by some stranger. If he came within earshot of you, most of us would become defensive. What if trayvon knew zimmerman was carrying a gun? Doesn't that up the ante for how you defend yourself? What if the tussle on the ground was instigated by zimmerman and trayvon was banging his head off the concrete in self defense? All these are hypothecals. But there are lots of reasons why he could have been justified. Could.

The bigger point is, you have an armed man within punching distance of a stranger who was unarmed. Did zimmerman put himself within earshot or did trayvon approach him? Well, we know zimmerman had no business ever leaving the car. It seems that never in any of this did zimmerman announce that he was an on duty patrol person. So yes, you have trayvon viewing he situation as a strange man stalking him in the dark. There are a bunch of ways zimmerman broke protocol and created a situation hat never needed to be created. He had no idea what he was doing. If you carry a gun on patrol, don't put yourself in a situation where the guy you're trailing perceives you as a threat.

I trust you are a responsible gun owner. You talk intelligently about the rules. If I were you I'd be embarrassed that Zimmerman represents gun owners. Here are some who use it to protect themselves. Zimmerman strikes me as a guy who creates reasons to use it.
If GZ had ran up behind him and hit him in the head with a 2x4 then TM would have been justified to do whatever he wanted because that is felony assault... If GZ put his hand on him he committed simple assault just by doing that and TM could have in retaliation punched him in his face.

Grabbing someone on the shoulder is not the same as felony assault.... I seriously doubt GZ ever got anywhere close to TM to grab his shoulder to be honest, he may have screamed something at TM that pissed him off but still that does not justify felony assault.

I am not defending GZ, he is probably a douchebag wannabe cop, I am defending the law as it is written
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R8RFAN has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.R8RFAN has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.R8RFAN has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.R8RFAN has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.R8RFAN has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.R8RFAN has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.R8RFAN has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.R8RFAN has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.R8RFAN has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.R8RFAN has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.R8RFAN has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.
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