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Old 03-08-2012, 12:50 PM  
Bump Bump is offline
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

Last edited by Bump; 07-13-2013 at 12:19 AM..
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:35 PM   #3406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
but one is dead...
and the other survived because he protected himself. Thats sort of the math. A wants to kill B and B fights back and kills A.
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:36 PM   #3407
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IMO it all goes back to who laid hands on the other first.
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:40 PM   #3408
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Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO View Post
IMO it all goes back to who laid hands on the other first.
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If trayvon was reasonably scared, and he had a right to defend himself. If a strange stalked me in the dark, no telling how I'd reaction if he ended up right next to me. No telling hwat I do if I found out he had a gun.
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:41 PM   #3409
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Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO View Post
The way I look at it is if Tm laid hands first he got what anyone throwing punches could get, if Zimmerman laid hands first he should go to jail.

Anything else doesn't really matter.

Following? Who cares.

Talking? Who cares.

yelling? Who cares.

None of that would excuse laying hands on someone
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It's stuff we'll never know. I will say I think it does matter how and what Zimmerman said to Martin.
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:46 PM   #3410
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
and the other survived because he protected himself. Thats sort of the math. A wants to kill B and B fights back and kills A.
That makes it sound like A sought out B to kill him.
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Old 05-20-2012, 01:52 PM   #3411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
but one is dead...
This is the common moron's argument:

"Someone died so obviously we MUST punish someone or convict someone of a crime"
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Old 05-20-2012, 02:47 PM   #3412
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It's stuff we'll never know. I will say I think it does matter how and what Zimmerman said to Martin.
words never excuse physicality.
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Old 05-20-2012, 02:48 PM   #3413
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Quote:
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That makes it sound like A sought out B to kill him.

If that fits your bias. But the jury won't start with the answer and look for facts to prove it...they will deal with the facts to define the answer.
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Old 05-20-2012, 02:48 PM   #3414
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
If trayvon was reasonably scared, and he had a right to defend himself. If a strange stalked me in the dark, no telling how I'd reaction if he ended up right next to me. No telling hwat I do if I found out he had a gun.
Bull shit. You are assuming a ton in this thread.
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:08 PM   #3415
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If we can assume Martin wasn't scared, can we also assume that if Zimmerman had followed the advice of the 911 operator, no crime would have been committed, Martin would have walked back to the house, and no one would be dead?
Like I said in this thread before. GZ DID follow the advice and starts back towards his vehicle when he is confronted by TM who doubled back on him.

IMO of course, but I think once GZ got out of his car and started following him TM saw that he was a short fat guy that wasn't black, TM said to himself, "Sheeeeeeeeeeet, I ain't gonna let some short fat racist muthaf**ker intimidate me let alone question my ass ! He purposely loses GZ to double back on him and goes back to confront GZ as he is walking back to his vehicle.

GZ: Do you live here ?

TM: F**k you, muthaf**ker! Swing and connects and down to the ground with TM on top.

Within 10-15 secs TM is dead
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:56 PM   #3416
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:08 PM   #3417
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Bull shit. You are assuming a ton in this thread.
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Wow, great thoughtful response. Thank you for that.
I am making assumptions off a whole slew of facts that Zimmerman supporters are trying hard to ignore.

But the fact remains. It was dark outside. It was rainy with an unclear visual. Zimmerman NEVER identified himself as a concerned citizen or as a patrol person, but instead by all accounts (including his own) asked him what he was doing. Zimmerman was told TWICE (in training prior to the day, and in a phone call) to not pursue Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman was out of his car, so he was most definitely in pursuit of Trayvon (and you have to assume that you believe his story that he gave up pursuing after the 911 dispatcher's instructions--I call bullshit). Zimmerman was pursuing Trayvon Martin knowing that he was packing a firearm. We know that Trayvon was not armed with a weapon. There is little reason whatsoever to believe he was doing anything wrong.

I am making assumptions based on an enormous amount of evidence that goes toward his character. He has an ultra-aggressive track record and a horrible temper. Not unreasonable to believe he maybe didn't control his temper this time either, and we shouldn't be very surprised that he found himself in a scuffle... again. He has a track record of making racially charged remarks and his track record of 911 calls were predominantly calling in black people. There are witnesses who claim that Zimmerman has overly aggressively pursued people in the past.

It is an absolute fact that Trayvon on a dark night saw some strange guy following him around, and that never during this time did Trayvon know that Zimmerman was just a patrolperson "doing his job." It is a very educated assumption that Zimmerman probably had no idea whatsoever how to diffuse the situation and probably did not handle it the way he should have. You can interpret that however you want. I interpret it as... Zimmerman should have never, ever left the car, period. Once he left the car, given the context of the situation, very strong reason to believe Trayvon Martin should have felt threatened.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:20 AM   #3418
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Wow, great thoughtful response. Thank you for that.
I am making assumptions off a whole slew of facts that Zimmerman supporters are trying hard to ignore.

But the fact remains. It was dark outside. It was rainy with an unclear visual. Zimmerman NEVER identified himself as a concerned citizen or as a patrol person, but instead by all accounts (including his own) asked him what he was doing. Zimmerman was told TWICE (in training prior to the day, and in a phone call) to not pursue Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman was out of his car, so he was most definitely in pursuit of Trayvon (and you have to assume that you believe his story that he gave up pursuing after the 911 dispatcher's instructions--I call bullshit). Zimmerman was pursuing Trayvon Martin knowing that he was packing a firearm. We know that Trayvon was not armed with a weapon. There is little reason whatsoever to believe he was doing anything wrong.

I am making assumptions based on an enormous amount of evidence that goes toward his character. He has an ultra-aggressive track record and a horrible temper. Not unreasonable to believe he maybe didn't control his temper this time either, and we shouldn't be very surprised that he found himself in a scuffle... again. He has a track record of making racially charged remarks and his track record of 911 calls were predominantly calling in black people. There are witnesses who claim that Zimmerman has overly aggressively pursued people in the past.

It is an absolute fact that Trayvon on a dark night saw some strange guy following him around, and that never during this time did Trayvon know that Zimmerman was just a patrolperson "doing his job." It is a very educated assumption that Zimmerman probably had no idea whatsoever how to diffuse the situation and probably did not handle it the way he should have. You can interpret that however you want. I interpret it as... Zimmerman should have never, ever left the car, period. Once he left the car, given the context of the situation, very strong reason to believe Trayvon Martin should have felt threatened.
There is a reason he wasn't charged for 40 plus days. In our society now that is sooooooo PC especially with the black folk do you really think the police dept would even take a chance being targeted for racism even with the victim being black AND unarmed? They were targeted any how.

Here is a hint for you. Why now is this story not on the front page anymore being screamed about by Jessie and Al and the MMM? It surely would be if the facts coming out would clearly support GZ as an aggressive murderer. But they don't.

When you have Al Dershowitz (biggest Lib defense lawyer in America) coming out an even saying "drop the murder charges". Game over.

He walks because he WAS defending himself within the law.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:45 AM   #3419
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We don't have any reason* to believe that Zimmerman did anything more than follow a suspicious person who was walking through his neighborhood and maybe ask him what he was doing there. There's zero evidence* that he started a fight. To even contemplate manslaughter charges without any such evidence is an example of prejudice based on the result. Charges should follow the evidence, not the other way around.

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* I'm talking about publicly available evidence here. Obviously if there is some secret evidence in the possession of the prosecutor, that could change things.
if you carry....(I carry)....anyone who carries....you'd have to be severely ****ed in the head to actually START a fight while carrying! I mean like murdering psycho I don't give a **** kinda ****ed in the head. like, I'm gonna start a fight and if I start losing I'm gonna kill this guy kinda ****ed in the head. Z is a douche, but I don't think he's actually crazy. I don't see any way he started a physical altercation. but nobody was there and we don't know. I'd bet a large amount of money on it if it could be proved though. I'd bet the first physcal contact was initiated by T not Z.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:24 AM   #3420
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This could very well be my fate, if it is I am certain that I will meet that, with all that I am and all that I believe in. Which is to say I will stand my ground will honor. I will take that risk opposed to a life where I feel the need to carry a gun out of paranoia that someone may harm me, and I must then deliver a death warrant. I choose not to carry a gun with the concession that life is too dangerous to pursue without one~
How very noble! It’s almost as if you’re insinuating that we carriers are kinda…dumb or something? Look, sorry if I’ve misconstrued your intent here, but your post really rubbed me the wrong way. I believe in the right to carry, that’s part of “all that I believe in”. I’m not stupid or paranoid for using that right. I don’t carry a gun because “life is too dangerous to pursue without one”. I carry because shit DOES HAPPEN and it COULD happen to ME. Doesn’t make me stupid or paranoid. I want to be around for my family. I don’t walk around in fear. I didn’t walk around in fear before carrying. I will almost certainly NEVER have to draw. But if I ever have to, I CAN. If you and I are in the back of a QT and shit goes down, I’ll do what I can to protect us, and any other innocents in the store. Hopefully all that’d amount to is keeping my ass in the back of the store, but if the dude starts coming down the aisle offing customers, you can stand behind me and I’ll try to take him out.

There are wolves out there. I will not be a sheep. My wife carries. As soon as my daughter is old enough she will carry. They will be able to defend themselves if necessary. They will not be sheep.
I’d bet the mortgage that in your heart of hearts….if you’re ever staring down the barrel of a gun at the mercy of some merciless killer, one of your last thoughts will be that a CCW would have been a good idea after all.

I lost a good friend last year, he was a water patrolman, a water cop. (his name was just added to the wall in DC - RIP Freddie) I asked him what he thought about CCW's. He told me "Frank, I don't want to insult you, but with the things I see on the job, my opinion is that if you can legally obtain a CCW and you don't exercise that right, I think you're a fool."

Maybe you should think about it...just a little more....maybe it could save your life one day....you never know....
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