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Old 03-08-2012, 11:50 AM  
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

Last edited by Bump; 07-12-2013 at 11:19 PM..
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:12 PM   #3841
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
He was actually the watch captain and his job was to observe and report to the police crimes or suspicious activity...

Trayvon chose to escalate it by taking it from a non physical altercation and turning it into a life threatening situation for GZ.

For all GZ had known, TM could have had a gun or knife in his pocket
His job was to observe and report. The training specifically says NOT to do the cops' job, just be the eyes and ears. The training specifically says not to start confrontations. And most neighborhood watches BAN their patrolmen from carrying a gun while on patrol.

The police themselves said that none of this would have happened if Zimmerman followed basic protocol, which was to stay by the car, maintain a visual, and announce that he was a concerned citizen.

Zimmerman broke basic protocol in every possible way. We shouldn't be endorsing vigilantism.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:19 PM   #3842
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
His job was to observe and report. The training specifically says NOT to do the cops' job, just be the eyes and ears. The training specifically says not to start confrontations. And most neighborhood watches BAN their patrolmen from carrying a gun while on patrol.

The police themselves said that none of this would have happened if Zimmerman followed basic protocol, which was to stay by the car, maintain a visual, and announce that he was a concerned citizen.

Zimmerman broke basic protocol in every possible way. We shouldn't be endorsing vigilantism.
I'm telling you, that bitch wouldn't have gotten beat if she had just followed protocol and kept her damn mouth shut! NONE of this would have happened if she hadn't been a smart ass uppity woman!

Sure, it's not illegal for her to talk back... but come on... we all knew that by doing so she was ASKING for a beating! She has to carry SOME of the blame right?

We're still waiting to hear why this is any different?
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:28 PM   #3843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
His job was to observe and report. The training specifically says NOT to do the cops' job, just be the eyes and ears. The training specifically says not to start confrontations. And most neighborhood watches BAN their patrolmen from carrying a gun while on patrol.

The police themselves said that none of this would have happened if Zimmerman followed basic protocol, which was to stay by the car, maintain a visual, and announce that he was a concerned citizen.

Zimmerman broke basic protocol in every possible way. We shouldn't be endorsing vigilantism.
Can you please post your evidence proving each of these claims:

1) Zimmerman was not allowed to verbally confront anyone
2)Zimmerman's watch program banned him from carrying, AND that he was actively on patrol that night, violating any law or code
3)That he was REQUIRED to stay by the car to maintain visual.....by some code or law or protocol

Your big argument is that if Zimmerman didn't do X,Y OR Z, that TM would be alive...yet you fail to identify the most simple, basic reason TM is dead.....

TM Assaulted GZ

You ignoring that key fact is exactly what is going to happen in the case.....you can dance around it all you want.....but in all reality it is THE key issue.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:35 PM   #3844
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As far as criminal liability, I don't think you can know what happened based on what is reported in the media. You have to wait for the evidence.

Has a wrongful death civil lawsuit lawsuit been filed?

Even if the criminal jury decides that Zimmerman was getting his azz kicked bad enough for him to reasonably think he could escalate to deadly force, seems like he may still be found to be civilly liable.

It may be a hung jury on the criminal charges, but if he broke the rules for watch captains and ignored the commands of the 9-1-1 operator. I don't see how he avoids getting a big verdict against him. It might be different if he had seen Martin tamper with a vehicle or unoccupied residence or have some bad interaction with another pedestrian or motorist.

I honestly don't see why someone would call 9-1-1 because some kid is walking down the street wearing a sweatshirt in February? I would be embarrassed to have a conversation with a 9-1-1 operator reporting that?

I have not heard the full recording of the 9-1-1 call, but I doubt it helps Zimmerman's defense, especially in a civil case.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:35 PM   #3845
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
I'm telling you, that bitch wouldn't have gotten beat if she had just followed protocol and kept her damn mouth shut! NONE of this would have happened if she hadn't been a smart ass uppity woman!

Sure, it's not illegal for her to talk back... but come on... we all knew that by doing so she was ASKING for a beating! She has to carry SOME of the blame right?

We're still waiting to hear why this is any different?
The woman we're talking about isn't carrying a gun. If she is, then she shouldn't be egging people on so she has to use it. The woman in your example was doing nothing wrong except just being annoying. She wasn't breaking any protocol. Zimmerman knew the rules and he broke them.

No, Zimmerman did NOT deserve to get beaten up based on what we know. But protocol is there for a reason. It's specifically to stop situations like this where a confrontation leads to a gun being used, when all that had to be done was to follow protocol.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:44 PM   #3846
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Can you please post your evidence proving each of these claims:

1) Zimmerman was not allowed to verbally confront anyone
2)Zimmerman's watch program banned him from carrying, AND that he was actively on patrol that night, violating any law or code
3)That he was REQUIRED to stay by the car to maintain visual.....by some code or law or protocol

Your big argument is that if Zimmerman didn't do X,Y OR Z, that TM would be alive...yet you fail to identify the most simple, basic reason TM is dead.....

TM Assaulted GZ

You ignoring that key fact is exactly what is going to happen in the case.....you can dance around it all you want.....but in all reality it is THE key issue.
How do you know what happened?

Has Zimmerman given a moment by moment account that has been subject to cross-examination?

Has any objective evidence been presented?

You can guess at what you think Zimmerman's explanation is, but he may not be believable.

He's admitted to killing Martin, the only way he can present evidence in defense is to testify. He may not be very believable, and since he killed the other witness to the event, if he is not believable, he will be found guilty.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:48 PM   #3847
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
The woman we're talking about isn't carrying a gun. If she is, then she shouldn't be egging people on so she has to use it. The woman in your example was doing nothing wrong except just being annoying. She wasn't breaking any protocol. Zimmerman knew the rules and he broke them.

No, Zimmerman did NOT deserve to get beaten up based on what we know. But protocol is there for a reason. It's specifically to stop situations like this where a confrontation leads to a gun being used, when all that had to be done was to follow protocol.
So if the woman gets beat up a number of times and THEN starts to carry a gun... she better keep her damn mouth shut from now on or it's her own fault for killing the person assaulting her? Sorry but that doesn't fly.

We don't know what happened, maybe Zimmerman really did provoke Trayvon. At that point he carries "some" blame. BUT simply following a guy doesn't warrant assault and doesn't make his use of a gun in self defense wrong in any way. You sound like someone trying to make excuses for Trayvon when there probably are none.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:51 PM   #3848
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Originally Posted by jettio View Post
How do you know what happened?
I don't...I'm not the one with the burden of proof....nor am I making ridiculous claims....
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:53 PM   #3849
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Originally Posted by jettio View Post
He's admitted to killing Martin, the only way he can present evidence in defense is to testify. He may not be very believable, and since he killed the other witness to the event, if he is not believable, he will be found guilty.
LOL

The odds of him taking the stand are about the same as Chyna's vagina smelling awesome.
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Old 03-10-2013, 10:59 PM   #3850
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Can you please post your evidence proving each of these claims:

1) Zimmerman was not allowed to verbally confront anyone
2)Zimmerman's watch program banned him from carrying, AND that he was actively on patrol that night, violating any law or code
3)That he was REQUIRED to stay by the car to maintain visual.....by some code or law or protocol

Your big argument is that if Zimmerman didn't do X,Y OR Z, that TM would be alive...yet you fail to identify the most simple, basic reason TM is dead.....

TM Assaulted GZ

You ignoring that key fact is exactly what is going to happen in the case.....you can dance around it all you want.....but in all reality it is THE key issue.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/us...anted=all&_r=0
Zimmerman was well versed in the rules. He apparently believed he was above the rules. And there was a powerpoint that's since been taken down (you can see it on this link, even if the sources is biased): http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...rash-black-men
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:04 PM   #3851
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/us...anted=all&_r=0
Zimmerman was well versed in the rules. He apparently believed he was above the rules. And there was a powerpoint that's since been taken down (you can see it on this link, even if the sources is biased): http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...rash-black-men
I dont see anything that specifically addresses the 3 claims....Could you please tell me a line number and match it up with a claim number?? Or are you just posting op-ed articles at random?

Like: 1) link, line #, quote

etc
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:04 PM   #3852
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
LOL

The odds of him taking the stand are about the same as Chyna's vagina smelling awesome.
What non-hearsay evidence could he get admitted to explain what happened?

His admission that he killed Martin is admissible hearsay. Any explanation Zimmerman has given out of court that is favorable to him may be inadmissible hearsay.
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:08 PM   #3853
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What non-hearsay evidence could he get admitted to explain what happened?
He doesn't have to explain ONE thing about what happened...

There are photos of him with wounds...There are medical records....there are eye witnesses who saw a struggle...there is the ballistic evidence.....

Its the prosecution who has to prove it was murder BEYOND a reasonable doubt....

Do you even understand the basics of what is going on here?
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:13 PM   #3854
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He doesn't have to explain ONE thing about what happened...

There are photos of him with wounds...There are medical records....there are eye witnesses who saw a struggle...

Its the prosecution who has to prove it was murder BEYOND a reasonable doubt....

Do you even understand the basics of what is going on here?
So did Zimmerman ever use his fists against Martin?

What injuries did Zimmerman have?
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:24 PM   #3855
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
I dont see anything that specifically addresses the 3 claims....Could you please tell me a line number and match it up with a claim number?? Or are you just posting op-ed articles at random?

Like: 1) link, line #, quote

etc
I'm not going to go out digging for this shit.
http://trayvonmartinmurdercase.blogs...ghborhood.html

-What you will not do is get physically involved with any activity you report or apprehension of any suspicious persons.
-Remember always that your responsibility is to report crime. Do not take any risks to prevent a crime or try to make an arrest. The responsibility for apprehending criminals belongs to the police department.
-Neighborhood watch is NOT the vigilante police: -Work with the police. –Be our eyes and ears. Report suspicious activity.

I don't know how much clearer you can get that he was clearly told that he was not supposed to be a vigilante. The Sanford Neighborhood Watch manual specifically states that guns are not to be used while on patrol, but I haven't seen whether Zimmerman was ever trained on that. And the idea that he should have stayed by the car is based on the bajillion reminders in the training documents you see that said DO NOT PURSUE.

C'mon. Let's not get ridiculous in defending Zimmerman. He was reminded a bajillion times not to be a vigilante, and yet that is exactly what he was doing. He broke protocol. From there, you can decide whether any action on either side was justified, but let's not make excuses for the fact that he knew the rules and broke them anyway.
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