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Old 03-08-2012, 11:50 AM  
Bump Bump is offline
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

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Old 03-10-2013, 11:25 PM   #3856
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is offline
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Originally Posted by jettio View Post
So did Zimmerman ever use his fists against Martin?

What injuries did Zimmerman have?
Zimmerman's head was bashed against the ground. Pretty clear that he eventually found himself on the losing end of the fight, and more than likely had to resort to shooting Trayvon to save his own life. I don't think there's any other reasonable explanation for how Zimmerman got beat up like that.
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:28 PM   #3857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jettio View Post
So did Zimmerman ever use his fists against Martin?

What injuries did Zimmerman have?
According to what I have seen (and you could google this in about 30 seconds)....

Zimmerman's fist were injury free, no knuckle scrapes.....UNLIKE Trayvon's

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...-his-knuckles/



Zimmerman had many injuries including a broken nose and lacerations to his head....including THIS photo which the prosecution attempted to hide:




also



All of which match his statements.
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:31 PM   #3858
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
I'm not going to go out digging for this shit.
Just admit you cannot substantiate your claims...Nothing you said is a fact. Otherwise you would be able to post it quite easily.

I'm sorry, I'm going by logic...facts.
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:36 PM   #3859
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
So if the woman gets beat up a number of times and THEN starts to carry a gun... she better keep her damn mouth shut from now on or it's her own fault for killing the person assaulting her? Sorry but that doesn't fly.

We don't know what happened, maybe Zimmerman really did provoke Trayvon. At that point he carries "some" blame. BUT simply following a guy doesn't warrant assault and doesn't make his use of a gun in self defense wrong in any way. You sound like someone trying to make excuses for Trayvon when there probably are none.
There could most definitely be excuses. Based on what we know right now, no, there doesn't appear to be. As for the woman... Interesting that you used the word "woman." Because if you put the word "man" in there... if a guy ran his mouth at a guy in a bar and got his ass kicked, most people on this forum would say he deserved it. Is the "woman" angle supposed to earn sympathy points for her as a victim?

I have never excused Trayvon for beating up Zimmerman. But yeah, if a guy went into a bar and started shit-talking and ended up getting into a fight where he had to shoot somebody, that's a hell of a lot different from a guy who was minding his own business and got jumped out of nowhere.
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:44 PM   #3860
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Just admit you cannot substantiate your claims...Nothing you said is a fact. Otherwise you would be able to post it quite easily.

I'm sorry, I'm going by logic...facts.
I pulled direct quotes from the documents. And then provided you a link where you can view those documents. The Neighborhood Watch manuals have even greater detail on protocol, but it hasn't been said if he actually received these things. What's the point in presenting sources if you're not even going to look at them.

You are really reaching to make excuses for the guy. If your rationale is that he was off patrol, so that gave him license to break all the rules to follow a guy way beyond reasonable distance from his car, then that's a shitty one. A cop doesn't suddenly get license to break all protocol just because he/she is off-duty. Zimmerman knew the rules and he broke them.
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Old 03-10-2013, 11:51 PM   #3861
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
I pulled direct quotes from the documents. And then provided you a link where you can view those documents.
You posted two links, to artcles where you expected me to search to find information to back up your claim...

you did not 'pull direct quotes' that addressed the 3 issues I mentioned...

See:

How do you announce you are neighborhood without confronting someone?

How do you maintain visual & observe them without following them?

Show me he was REQUIRED to follow these protocol, even off duty....


You have a very selective ability to understand even basic, simple shit.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:26 AM   #3862
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
You posted two links, to artcles where you expected me to search to find information to back up your claim...

you did not 'pull direct quotes' that addressed the 3 issues I mentioned...

See:

How do you announce you are neighborhood without confronting someone?

How do you maintain visual & observe them without following them?

Show me he was REQUIRED to follow these protocol, even off duty....


You have a very selective ability to understand even basic, simple shit.
So I guess being told by the police what your responsibilities are is not considered requirements, and that he suddenly becomes allowed to do all those things when he's off duty.

Announcing that you're neighborhood is hardly the kind of confrontation that chasing a guy down is. The police have already stated that this whole thing could have been avoided if Zimmerman followed basic protocol, which meant not pursuing the situation. And the idea that he was just maintaining a visual is hardly credible, given that Zimmerman's account seems to have frequent inconsistencies and he was far from his car and into the courtyard.

I honestly don't know how anyone can look at Zimmerman's actions and not see that he was clearly on a vigilante mission. Or suggest that what he did was in any way normal.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:29 AM   #3863
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:30 AM   #3864
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Zimmerman's head was bashed against the ground. Pretty clear that he eventually found himself on the losing end of the fight, and more than likely had to resort to shooting Trayvon to save his own life. I don't think there's any other reasonable explanation for how Zimmerman got beat up like that.
I think Martin was getting the better of the fight, but I doubt he was planning on beating Zimmerman to death.

Zimmerman might of shot him because his pride was wounded and not because he feared for his life at the time he shot him.

It would interesting to know where Zimmerman had the gun and his explanation for how he managed to get to it if he was getting annihilated in the fight.

I looked on wikipedia, and it says that Zimmerman did a video re-enactment of his version the next day and that he gave statements. That could be important.

Seems like his statements say that Martin saw the gun and struggled with him for it. The prosecution might argue and have evidence that Martin disengaged from the fight and that Zimmerman used the gun then.

I think if Zimmerman had said azz-kicking, I get to gun during the azz-kicking, Martin never saw gun, I shot him because azz-kicking was not ending. That might be more believable than ass-kicking, I get to gun, Martin sees gun and we struggle for its possession, The only part of the fight I win is the struggle for the gun. And then I shoot him. That is apparently Zimmerman's version.

The truth might be, azz kicking, gun inaccessible during azz kicking, azz kicking stops, I get my gun, let Martin know I have it, and one or both of us walk towards each other and I shoot him at close range in the chest.
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Old 03-11-2013, 01:56 AM   #3865
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There's just no good answer here. I'm pretty damn sure I'd start throwing fists around if some dude just walked up to me, acting crazy, and pretending to be a police officer trying to arrest me. If I saw a gun, I'd be especially sure to hit hard and often. You can't outrun a bullet. You're screwed as soon as you see the guy. Martin may or may not be a guy who enjoyed picking fights. But I think any idiot would have to admit that when you're being stalked and confronted by a dude with a gun, you have to assume this guy isn't trying to help you.

I think Martin probably saw Zimmerman as a crazy man/threat, and after a few words were exchanged, the gun was brandished. (which if you have it on you and you're not looking for a fight, is the first thing you'll reach for). When dude says "I have a gun" you don't run... You'll get shot in the back. You beat the shit out of the guy until he's unconscious or you die.

Of course, Martin doesn't know that all he has to do is show his bag of skittles and say "dude, I live right there" and Zimmerman will probably go away. But you can't take that chance, he has NO idea what Zimmerman's intentions are.


This is why more guns in good people's hands ISN'T the right idea. Zimmerman, is in all likelihood, a decent guy. Perhaps a little prone to delusions of grandeur, but I doubt he wanted to shoot anybody. This is the kinda thing that happens when misunderstandings escalate. If there is no gun, somebody gets an asswhoopin.'

Guns aren't bad, they shouldn't be banned, that's not what I'm saying. But the more people who just have them on them all the time... the more fights turn into slayings.
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Old 03-11-2013, 07:36 AM   #3866
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There's just no good answer here.
Yes there is.

A. If you want to carry a gun around with you in Florida, you can
B. If a feral teenager jumps your ass, breaks your nose and slams your head into the ground, you can put him down.

These charges are politically expedient and the trial is a sham.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:53 AM   #3867
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Yes there is.

A. If you want to carry a gun around with you in Florida, you can
B. If a feral teenager jumps your ass, breaks your nose and slams your head into the ground, you can put him down.

These charges are politically expedient and the trial is a sham.
Feral teenager? You mean a kid walking down the street? What a stupid **** you are. You're racist, guaranteed.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:56 AM   #3868
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Feral teenager? You mean a kid walking down the street? What a stupid **** you are. You're racist, guaranteed.
You can spot a racist from a single racially-neutral adjective? You must be a democrat.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:05 AM   #3869
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Originally Posted by mcan View Post
There's just no good answer here. I'm pretty damn sure I'd start throwing fists around if some dude just walked up to me, acting crazy, and pretending to be a police officer trying to arrest me. If I saw a gun, I'd be especially sure to hit hard and often. You can't outrun a bullet. You're screwed as soon as you see the guy. Martin may or may not be a guy who enjoyed picking fights. But I think any idiot would have to admit that when you're being stalked and confronted by a dude with a gun, you have to assume this guy isn't trying to help you.

I think Martin probably saw Zimmerman as a crazy man/threat, and after a few words were exchanged, the gun was brandished. (which if you have it on you and you're not looking for a fight, is the first thing you'll reach for). When dude says "I have a gun" you don't run... You'll get shot in the back. You beat the shit out of the guy until he's unconscious or you die.

Of course, Martin doesn't know that all he has to do is show his bag of skittles and say "dude, I live right there" and Zimmerman will probably go away. But you can't take that chance, he has NO idea what Zimmerman's intentions are.


This is why more guns in good people's hands ISN'T the right idea. Zimmerman, is in all likelihood, a decent guy. Perhaps a little prone to delusions of grandeur, but I doubt he wanted to shoot anybody. This is the kinda thing that happens when misunderstandings escalate. If there is no gun, somebody gets an asswhoopin.'

Guns aren't bad, they shouldn't be banned, that's not what I'm saying. But the more people who just have them on them all the time... the more fights turn into slayings.
I agree only somewhat. I do think this brings up great conversation about how reckless we should allow people to be when they conceal and carry. More importantly let's hold them accountable. If you conceal and carry, you should NOT be abusing that privilege to start assuming police powers. Every conceal and carry gun owner I know is obsessive about personal responsibility. I imagine zimmerman had conceal and carry training, was likely trained in former security roles, and received basic training as neighborhood patrol. There are no excuses. He carried a concealed firearm and decided to be reckless with that privilege.

Second, it does raise questions about screening procedures for conceal and carry. Zimmerman bargained his way out of reducing one of his punishments to barely pass requirements for conceal and carry. He should not have passed the screen, given his history of having a hot temper.

Gun owners shouldn't rally around zimmerman. All gun owners I know are embarrassed by him because he treated his privilege so recklessly.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:53 AM   #3870
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
.

All gun owners I know are embarrassed by him because he treated his privilege so recklessly.
No bigger lie has been told in this thread.
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