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Old 03-08-2012, 11:50 AM  
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

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Old 05-24-2013, 01:32 PM   #4021
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Old 05-24-2013, 01:42 PM   #4022
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There might be some argument about admitting that evidence pre-trial and the defense may well use it if allowed.

But I am not sure how those photos would be very helpful for Zimmerman considering that Martin was unarmed that night. Is Zimmerman's story that Martin showed the photo of the gun on his cellphone and Zimmerman mistook it for a real gun that Martin was threatening to use that night?

Likewise, I doubt that Zimmerman was deputized by the DEA to shoot people who had photos of marijuana plants.

I suppose it is all going to come down to whether or not Zimmerman tells a believable story that makes a case for self-defense.

I was not there, but my guess is that Zimmerman was as or more responsible for the physical confrontation happening in the first place, that Martin was getting the best of the hand to hand combat.

That Zimmerman was not fearful of death or serious injury but he was tired of getting his azz kicked and he shot Martin out of revenge and not out of fear.

Again, I was not there, but I just don't think that Martin was intending to beat Zimmerman to death or trying to hurt him that badly. I doubt that Zimmerman thought he was about to die, he was frustrated that he followed some kid to confront him and end up up getting a playground ass-kicking, and since he had a gun he used it out of revenge and not fear.
I don't know about the bottom of your post. But I fully agree that the photos don't advance the story very much.

The jury was going to hear plenty of clear-cut evidence that showed Trayvon was no angel and that he got the best of Zimmerman in a fight. I don't think these pictures change the trajectory of that story.
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:19 PM   #4023
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Again, I was not there, but I just don't think that Martin was intending to beat Zimmerman to death or trying to hurt him that badly. I doubt that Zimmerman thought he was about to die, he was frustrated that he followed some kid to confront him and end up up getting a playground ass-kicking, and since he had a gun he used it out of revenge and not fear.
I looked at the pictures of Zimmerman and thought to my self I have got out of the ring looking worse and have damn sure inflicted worse on opponents in a boxing ring. The evidence should be allowed IMO as this case is about the two people involved and painting the victim as a innocent little kid gives an unfair advantage~
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Old 05-24-2013, 02:32 PM   #4024
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:33 PM   #4025
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I looked at the pictures of Zimmerman and though to my self I have got out of the ring looking worse and have damn sure inflicted worse on opponents in a boxing ring. The evidence should be allowed IMO as this case is about the two people involved and painting the victim as a innocent little kid gives an unfair advantage~
I don't think that the prosecutor would take the same approach as the media did when calling for the police to take a closer look.

I thought it was insincere of the media to post these old pictures of him like he was still playing Pop Warner football when, more than likely, they had more recent photos.

The prosecutor would know what evidence is available and would not want to lose credibility by overemphasizing something that could be questioned.

In this case, Martin is dead and can not testify. I am not sure that there are any independent witnesses of the actual fight.

I don't know what Zimmerman's story is going to be. I think he wil have to testify because it is clear that he killed Martin and he has the burden of production and persuasion on self-defense. The Prosecutor's cross-exam might affect the judge's decision on what evidence about Martin's past to allow.
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:48 PM   #4026
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I don't think that the prosecutor would take the same approach as the media did when calling for the police to take a closer look.

I thought it was insincere of the media to post these old pictures of him like he was still playing Pop Warner football when, more than likely, they had more recent photos.

The prosecutor would know what evidence is available and would not want to lose credibility by overemphasizing something that could be questioned.

In this case, Martin is dead and can not testify. I am not sure that there are any independent witnesses of the actual fight.

I don't know what Zimmerman's story is going to be. I think he wil have to testify because it is clear that he killed Martin and he has the burden of production and persuasion on self-defense. The Prosecutor's cross-exam might affect the judge's decision on what evidence about Martin's past to allow.
I am pro gun 110% and I have been called a libtard for not backing Zimmerman. I am not privy to the evidence. I will say this from what I have read this guy has wannabe badass written all over him. All I want is an even playing field. Let the facts be seen and let it be settled fairly. As it is now I lean strongly to the this would have never happened if he stayed in his car. I also think someone carrying a gun has a huge responsibility to avoid situations where it comes into play when it did not need to. I also lean to the thought this guy stays in his car if he was not packing. The reason I am so harsh in my stance is every time a gun is used when it should not have been allows gun grabbing ****heads more grounds to come after mine~
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:06 PM   #4027
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I am pro gun 110% and I have been called a libtard for not backing Zimmerman. I am not privy to the evidence. I will say this from what I have read this guy has wannabe badass written all over him. All I want is an even playing field. Let the facts be seen and left it be settled fairly. As it is now I lean strongly to the this would have never happened if he stayed in his car. I also think someone carrying a gun has a huge responsibility to avoid situations where it comes into play when it did not need to. I also lean to the thought this guy stays in his car if he was not packing. The reason I am so harsh in my stance is every time a gun is used when it should not have been allows gun grabbing ****heads more grounds to come after mine~
I think the public debate will always be an uneven playing field where most people get locked into their opinions.

I think the court case will likely be fair.

You make some good points.
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:10 PM   #4028
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Doesn't matter if he's a "Wannabe Badass". He's in charge of the police authorized neighborhood watch. The neighborhood has so many break-ins and crime that the community had to start a neighborhood watch. Ergo, Zimmerman was fully within his rights to question Martin. He's within his rights to get out of his car and he's within his rights to carry a firearm.
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:18 PM   #4029
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Doesn't matter if he's a "Wannabe Badass". He's in charge of the police authorized neighborhood watch. The neighborhood has so many break-ins and crime that the community had to start a neighborhood watch. Ergo, Zimmerman was fully within his rights to question Martin. He's within his rights to get out of his car and he's within his rights to carry a firearm.
Except for the fact he was told to stand down. Where in my post did I state he did not have the right to carry a gun?
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:22 PM   #4030
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Doesn't matter if he's a "Wannabe Badass". He's in charge of the police authorized neighborhood watch. The neighborhood has so many break-ins and crime that the community had to start a neighborhood watch. Ergo, Zimmerman was fully within his rights to question Martin. He's within his rights to get out of his car and he's within his rights to carry a firearm.
He also has Sixth Amendment rights to a jury trial and to counsel at that trial.

Methinks he has to give up that Fifth Amendment right to clam up because he has the burden of production and persuasion on self-defense.
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:26 PM   #4031
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Firearm owners should be embarrassed by the guy, not supportive of him. Carrying a gun is fine. But you carry a gun in case you get caught in a fight. You do NOT use a gun to make you braver about picking fights.

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Doesn't matter if he's a "Wannabe Badass". He's in charge of the police authorized neighborhood watch. The neighborhood has so many break-ins and crime that the community had to start a neighborhood watch.Ergo, Zimmerman was fully within his rights to question Martin. He's within his rights to get out of his car and he's within his rights to carry a firearm.
Zimmerman received training specifically telling him that he was to be the "eyes and ears" of the police and to report crimes, not act as a vigilante. Neighborhood Watch rules specifically prohibit carrying a firearm while on duty -- the reason is obvious, because then you have untrained guys like Zimmerman trying to exercise police powers. If anything, Zimmerman's involvement in Neighborhood Watch made him MORE aware of procedure, which he clearly broke.

I don't understand the support for Zimmerman and using gun rights to make that case. No gun owner I've ever met would dare to pick a fight while carrying because they take their gun rights very, very seriously. They don't carry guns around so they can start becoming a cowboy.
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:33 PM   #4032
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Firearm owners should be embarrassed by the guy, not supportive of him. Carrying a gun is fine. But you carry a gun in case you get caught in a fight. You do NOT use a gun to make you braver about picking fights.



Zimmerman received training specifically telling him that he was to be the "eyes and ears" of the police and to report crimes, not act as a vigilante. Neighborhood Watch rules specifically prohibit carrying a firearm while on duty -- the reason is obvious, because then you have untrained guys like Zimmerman trying to exercise police powers. If anything, Zimmerman's involvement in Neighborhood Watch made him MORE aware of procedure, which he clearly broke.

I don't understand the support for Zimmerman and using gun rights to make that case. No gun owner I've ever met would dare to pick a fight while carrying because they take their gun rights very, very seriously. They don't carry guns around so they can start becoming a cowboy.
Those are good points. It's not right for Garcia Bronco to make his list of reasons why Zimmerman is in the right if one of his reasons, being on Neighborhood Watch, does not allow carrying a gun, one of the other reasons.
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:45 PM   #4033
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I don't understand the support for Zimmerman and using gun rights to make that case. No gun owner I've ever met would dare to pick a fight while carrying because they take their gun rights very, very seriously. They don't carry guns around so they can start becoming a cowboy.
This is the reason I have been called a moonbat an a libtard. I encourage people to not only own guns but be very proficient with one. That said in order to maintain our right to own and carry one be damn sure when you use one it was THE ONLY option available. The reason I am less than pleased with this guy is he appears to have created a reason. That puts my guns in danger~
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:48 PM   #4034
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This is the reason I have been called a moonbat an a libtard. I encourage people to not only own guns but be very proficient with one. That said in order to maintain our right to own and carry one be damn sure when you use one it was THE ONLY option available. The reason I am less than pleased with this guy is he appears to have created a reason. That put my guns in danger~
I file Zimmerman under "dumbass" along with the parents that gave their 5 year old a .22 and left it loaded for him to accidentally shoot his sister.


All of the ****tards give the rest of us (99.999999%) a bad name.
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:07 PM   #4035
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There might be some argument about admitting that evidence pre-trial and the defense may well use it if allowed.

But I am not sure how those photos would be very helpful for Zimmerman considering that Martin was unarmed that night. Is Zimmerman's story that Martin showed the photo of the gun on his cellphone and Zimmerman mistook it for a real gun that Martin was threatening to use that night?

Likewise, I doubt that Zimmerman was deputized by the DEA to shoot people who had photos of marijuana plants.

I suppose it is all going to come down to whether or not Zimmerman tells a believable story that makes a case for self-defense.

I was not there, but my guess is that Zimmerman was as or more responsible for the physical confrontation happening in the first place, that Martin was getting the best of the hand to hand combat.

That Zimmerman was not fearful of death or serious injury but he was tired of getting his azz kicked and he shot Martin out of revenge and not out of fear.

Again, I was not there, but I just don't think that Martin was intending to beat Zimmerman to death or trying to hurt him that badly. I doubt that Zimmerman thought he was about to die, he was frustrated that he followed some kid to confront him and end up up getting a playground ass-kicking, and since he had a gun he used it out of revenge and not fear.
It comes down to whether or not the jury believes that Trayvon might have been prone to violence rather than making a rational decision to get away if he felt threatened. These pictures don't prove anything, but they start to paint a picture of who Trayvon was.

The prosecution is going to try to paint him as some sweet loving kid who would never do wrong. The defense is going to try to paint him as someone who was pissed off at being followed (legally, mind you), and basically said, "**** it, I'm a gangsta...I'm going to **** this dude up".

Those pictures, texts, and disciplinary records don't mean that Trayvon chose to attack rather than flee, but it sure seems like he fancied himself some sort of thug that wouldn't shy away from confrontation.
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