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Old 03-08-2012, 11:50 AM  
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

Last edited by Bump; 07-12-2013 at 11:19 PM..
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:33 PM   #616
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
I don't think the girlfriend's account will be admissible in court, she didn't see anything and she didn't hear anything.

It might be difficult to explain how Zimmerman got punched in the face, and his nose bloodied...and finally (this is a HUGE if) if it was Zimmerman calling for help, that would seem to be enough reasonable doubt to me.

The thing that people do not understand is that the defense does not need to PROVE that Trayvon was the aggressor (although it would be helpful to them), all they need to do is cast a REASONABLE doubt that zimmerman was the aggressor.
Of course her account will be admissible in court. She was talking to him the whole time until he got jumped. They have phone logs of all this.

It is simple. He jumped the kid, the kid tried to defend himself, and then Zimmerman pulled his gun and shot him.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:34 PM   #617
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The stand your ground law.. It is not specific in this particular instance and will have to be decided upon by the judges. I have a feeling it will be granted during this case and amended later on. Imo.
Here is the thing...I don't think the stand your ground rule is going to matter too much....

The problem is going to be that even the most they can probably get a jury to agree on, would be MAYBE murder 2. And that is a HUGE risk......with the right lawyers, and jury he could easily beat murder 2 if (yes these are big ifs)

1) he was punched in the face by Travon
2)he was the one calling for help on the audio
3) the girlfriend of the victim is not a credible witness or gets her story wrong

If one or more of these things turn out to be true, then I think they probably will not want to risk a murder 2 trial, which leads us to the other options....Manslaughter? Negligent Homicide? What else?
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:35 PM   #618
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JMHO but I think if he does get charged it is going to be tough to convince a jury a 13 year old boy was any kind of aggressor against the man. Especially when you throw in the girlfriends account.
Florida police are under mounting pressure to arrest self-appointed neighbourhood watch volunteer who shot dead an unarmed teenager following dramatic new evidence from the victim's girlfriend.
The family of Trayvon Martin, 17, say the account from his girlfriend completely contradicts his killer's self-defence claim.
In a dramatic press conference on Tuesday, the Martin family's lawyer Benjamin Crump detailed how the unnamed girl – a minor who was so traumatised by Martin's death she was taken to hospital at his wake – was talking to him on his cell phone in the minutes leading up to his death, and heard the altercation with his killer.
Martin, 17, was shot by Hispanic volunteer watch captain George Zimmerman, who spotted the teenager while patrolling the neighbourhood on a rainy evening in February. Zimmerman, 28, claims he shot the teenager with his licensed 9mm handgun in self-defence during a confrontation.
The failure of local police to arrest Zimmerman in the three weeks since the shooting – and the release of 911 tapes that reveal he followed Martin, despite a warning by a police dispatcher not to – has fuelled a fierce debate on race, vigilante justice and a "stand your ground" law in Florida that allows people to defend themselves using deadly force.
Crump said that during the final phone call with his girlfriend, who was back home in Miami, Martin told her that a stranger was following him, according to an affidavit she recorded. Martin had then tried unsuccessfully to get away from the stranger.
"He says: 'Oh, he's right behind me. He's right behind me again,'" Crump said the girl told him. "She says: 'Run.' He says: 'I'm not going to run, I'm just going to walk fast.'
She then heard Martin saying "Why are you following me" and another voice saying "What are you doing here?" She told Crump they both repeated themselves, and then she thinks she heard Zimmerman push Martin "because his voice changes, like something interrupted his speech." She heard an altercation and then the phone call was cut off, Crump said.
When police arrived a minute later, at 7.17pm, Martin was lying dead in the street.

http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/m...d&type=article
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:37 PM   #619
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I know the feeling.

May be NSFW, cops says SHIT after bing shot at. Hamilton, Montana.

http://billingsgazette.com/news/stat...cc4c002e0.html
Hell yeah he was justified.. And good for him for having great aim under that situation..
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:40 PM   #620
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
Of course her account will be admissible in court. She was talking to him the whole time until he got jumped. They have phone logs of all this.

It is simple. He jumped the kid, the kid tried to defend himself, and then Zimmerman pulled his gun and shot him.
It isn't that simple..., if it was he would be arrested by now.

She didn't see anything and they lost contact BEFORE the altercation happened...So far, her story only CORROBORATES what Zimmerman has said. She cannot describe any part of the altercation nor can she testify as to who was the aggressor (who threw the 1st punch)....

So far, the only account I have heard is that Zimmerman was the one with the bloody nose. There are conflicting accounts as to whose voice it is calling for help on the audio tape.

With all of this in mind, I disagree with you in that it is simple.

I would argue, that this is a reasonable scenario:

Zimmerman followed Trayvon, confonted him to ask him what he was doing / where he lived....Trayvon punched him in the face, and only then did Zimmerman pull his weapon.

Also it could be reasonable that zimmerman pulled his weapon, and there was some sort of a struggle where he got punched in the face, and then the gun discharged.

There are MANY more reasonable scenarios than just your one scenario....that is the problem for the prosecution.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:40 PM   #621
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Hell yeah he was justified.. And good for him for having great aim under that situation..
He was damn lucky the first shot was a misfire, or he would have been the one taking a dirt nap. Point blank with a .44 mag = dead cop.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:45 PM   #622
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I'm way behind on this, but did this neighborhood watch guy have any type of uniform or badge to identify himself? If he did, then it seems like it might've stopped a problem if it kept the kid from thinking that some thug was following him to beat him up. If he didn't, then the neighborhood watch guy never should've approached the kid, and should've waited for the police to show up.

I caught a burglar a few years back, and there was no confrontation at all. I stayed half a block behind him, kept him in sight, and then pointed at him when the police showed up. If the burglar would've walked toward me, I would've walked back to stay away. It was somewhat exciting when it happened, but I felt no need to confront the guy.

The biggest problem this Zimmerman guy has is that he initiated the situation when he didn't have to and likely wasn't trained to do so. I think I even remember reading somewhere that the 911 dispatcher told him to stay away.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:46 PM   #623
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
It isn't that simple..., if it was he would be arrested by now.

She didn't see anything and they lost contact BEFORE the altercation happened...So far, her story only CORROBORATES what Zimmerman has said. She cannot describe any part of the altercation nor can she testify as to who was the aggressor (who threw the 1st punch)....

So far, the only account I have heard is that Zimmerman was the one with the bloody nose. There are conflicting accounts as to whose voice it is calling for help on the audio tape.

With all of this in mind, I disagree with you in that it is simple.

I would argue, that this is a reasonable scenario:

Zimmerman followed Trayvon, confonted him to ask him what he was doing / where he lived....Trayvon punched him in the face, and only then did Zimmerman pull his weapon.

Also it could be reasonable that zimmerman pulled his weapon, and there was some sort of a struggle where he got punched in the face, and then the gun discharged.

There are MANY more reasonable scenarios than just your one scenario....that is the problem for the prosecution.
Lol. You obviously have this case figured out. Why are you here again? I think the Zimmerman defense team needs your assistance.

Another theory could be that Aliens came down at the exact moment the gun was pulled and mind melded with Zimmerman to make him pull the trigger.

Alternatively the devil made an appearance

OR while Zummerman and Treyvon wrestled on the ground a still yet unidentified third party stood over them and screamed help while a shooter at the grassy knoll took out trayvon.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:47 PM   #624
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IMO Zimmerman should have been arrested. He shot an unarmed kid in a gated community. He was told by the 911 operator that he wasn't supposed to follow the kid yet he continued to do so. He also should have had a sobriety test done at the time of the shooting. Also has he shown any remorse? I haven't heard that he has.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:47 PM   #625
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Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
I'm way behind on this, but did this neighborhood watch guy have any type of uniform or badge to identify himself? If he did, then it seems like it might've stopped a problem if it kept the kid from thinking that some thug was following him to beat him up. If he didn't, then the neighborhood watch guy never should've approached the kid, and should've waited for the police to show up.

I caught a burglar a few years back, and there was no confrontation at all. I stayed half a block behind him, kept him in sight, and then pointed at him when the police showed up. If the burglar would've walked toward me, I would've walked back to stay away. It was somewhat exciting when it happened, but I felt no need to confront the guy.

The biggest problem this Zimmerman guy has is that he initiated the situation when he didn't have to and likely wasn't trained to do so. I think I even remember reading somewhere that the 911 dispatcher told him to stay away.
Yep. There was no reason for the confrontation to happen. Zimmerman is at fault for this kid's death.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:48 PM   #626
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He was damn lucky the first shot was a misfire, or he would have been the one taking a dirt nap. Point blank with a .44 mag = dead cop.
Holy cow. The cop should be allowed to go shoot that guy's mother and father, too. I hope he killed the guy.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:49 PM   #627
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Holy cow. The cop should be allowed to go shoot that guy's mother and father, too. I hope he killed the guy.
Yep, the guy is taking a dirt nap.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:50 PM   #628
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
It isn't that simple..., if it was he would be arrested by now.

She didn't see anything and they lost contact BEFORE the altercation happened...So far, her story only CORROBORATES what Zimmerman has said. She cannot describe any part of the altercation nor can she testify as to who was the aggressor (who threw the 1st punch)....

So far, the only account I have heard is that Zimmerman was the one with the bloody nose. There are conflicting accounts as to whose voice it is calling for help on the audio tape.

With all of this in mind, I disagree with you in that it is simple.

I would argue, that this is a reasonable scenario:

Zimmerman followed Trayvon, confonted him to ask him what he was doing / where he lived....Trayvon punched him in the face, and only then did Zimmerman pull his weapon.

Also it could be reasonable that zimmerman pulled his weapon, and there was some sort of a struggle where he got punched in the face, and then the gun discharged.

There are MANY more reasonable scenarios than just your one scenario....that is the problem for the prosecution.
I was only saying it was simple to explain away how he got a bloody nose not the arrest.

I agree with your above scenarios, any of them are reasonable.

As far as the girlfriend goes if you read what DenverChief posted she was listening at the start and part of the altercation. The phone logs will prove that.

Also I am not saying he will be charged since it appears the cops really screwed this whole thing up.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:52 PM   #629
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Of course her account will be admissible in court. She was talking to him the whole time until he got jumped. They have phone logs of all this.

It is simple. He jumped the kid, the kid tried to defend himself, and then Zimmerman pulled his gun and shot him.
Hearsay issues
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:57 PM   #630
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Hearsay issues
Hearsay only applies if a "witness told me". She is a witness
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