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Old 03-08-2012, 11:50 AM  
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

Last edited by Bump; 07-12-2013 at 11:19 PM..
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:08 PM   #646
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I am seeing this everywhere, every time I learn more about it it makes me sicker.

**** this guy.
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:09 PM   #647
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Thats probably the one thing everyone can agree on...

As far as a 'long time' in prison goes though.....I suppose that depends on your definition.

I kind of doubt it....unless you consider like 6-10 years a 'long time.'
I would consider six days in prison a long time lol, and i certainly dont claim to understand all of the legal angles... but common sense is telling me that this guy has not one leg to stand on.

A kid is dead for nothing & this guy had zero legal right to detain or harass him in any way whatsoever, if what i've read is correct.

He got beat up & pulled a gun in anger.
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:10 PM   #648
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Sure but if Trayvon was your son or brother would you consider 6 years a long time? 10? That is kind of why I said it depends on the definition....
Not at all, hell Trayvon wouldn't even be 21 in 6 years. I agree perspective is everything.
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:48 PM   #649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free View Post
He got beat up & pulled a gun in anger.
If the 1st part of what you said is true, then the case may not be a slam dunk for the prosecution. I believe that it may be true, there were reports that not only did Zimmerman have a bloody nose, but he also had a wound on the back of his head, as if he had fallen or been knocked backwards or had his head knocked into the ground.

If that is true, then the case against Zimmerman may run into some problems....Replace the underlined word above with fear, which is reasonable IMO and then you can see the argument that might be made.

Contrary to what you stated, anyone does have the right to ask "Hey what are you doing in my neighborhood?" I mean we all have the right to even make a citizen's arrest if we witness a crime.
If I come up to you and I ask you what youre doing in my neighborhood, you do not have the right to strike me.

If he came up to him and asked what he was doing...and Trayvon swung on him....then who is the aggressor in that case? (I am not saying 100% that is how it happened, just throwing out a reasonable scenario, based on the information at hand)

All I am saying is that the prosecution of this case is not a simple matter, as many would suggest. There seems to be plenty of reasonable doubt from the initial evidence...It is the burden of the prosecution to get every single juror to agree BEYOND a reasonable doubt on a specific crime.

I don't think that is possible with Murder 1..It might even be a stretch with Murder 2......This is not going to be a slam dunk case.
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Old 03-20-2012, 09:05 PM   #650
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You won't be forgotten Trayvon. No matter how much some wish to sweep this under the rug.
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Old 03-20-2012, 09:45 PM   #651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
If that is true, then the case against Zimmerman may run into some problems....Replace the underlined word above with fear, which is reasonable IMO and then you can see the argument that might be made.

Contrary to what you stated, anyone does have the right to ask "Hey what are you doing in my neighborhood?" I mean we all have the right to even make a citizen's arrest if we witness a crime.
For me, these two paragraphs help boil this down.

Who initiated the fear? some guy in civilian clothes slowly tailing a random person walking down the street is my answer, the kid is heard talking to his girlfriend about some strange guy following him, his words conveying that he's trying to keep calm & not run from the guy, but just keep walking. Sounds to me like a scared kid, he's not the one following people around... he did not instigate any fear, Zimmerman did.

I may have missed it, but what crime was witnessed? what did Zimmerman see that was so outside the law that he felt it necessary to play amateur cop, complete with gun? it may sound silly, but just looking at him makes me think 'moron', you just know he came off as hamhanded & stupid... telling the dispatcher who warned him not to approach, as he gets out of the car to approach... 'these ****** always get away', scaring the kid even more with his lack of any real symbol of authority. Until we hear otherwise, the only crime committed belongs to Zimmerman.

The kid hasnt been shown to have started the fear, hasnt been shown to have been committing any crime & wasnt the one packing heat... unless other evidence turns up, its pretty simple imo.
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Old 03-20-2012, 09:51 PM   #652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free View Post
For me, these two paragraphs help boil this down.

Who initiated the fear? some guy in civilian clothes slowly tailing a random person walking down the street is my answer, the kid is heard talking to his girlfriend about some strange guy following him, his words conveying that he's trying to keep calm & not run from the guy, but just keep walking. Sounds to me like a scared kid, he's not the one following people around... he did not instigate any fear, Zimmerman did.

I may have missed it, but what crime was witnessed? what did Zimmerman see that was so outside the law that he felt it necessary to play amateur cop, complete with gun? it may sound silly, but just looking at him makes me think 'moron', you just know he came off as hamhanded & stupid... telling the dispatcher who warned him not to approach, as he gets out of the car to approach... 'these ****** always get away', scaring the kid even more with his lack of any real symbol of authority. Until we hear otherwise, the only crime committed belongs to Zimmerman.

The kid hasnt been shown to have started the fear, hasnt been shown to have been committing any crime & wasnt the one packing heat... unless other evidence turns up, its pretty simple imo.
Alot of poster here have a hard time admitting racism unless its someone other than a white male initiating it. Zimmerman trailed this kid because he was black. He killed the kid out of his own racial fear. The police went another step further and tried to sweep it under the rug. Now the feds are involved and hopefully Zimmerman ( who was convicted of assaulting police officers in 2005 ) will rot in jail.
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Old 03-20-2012, 09:54 PM   #653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free View Post
For me, these two paragraphs help boil this down.

Who initiated the fear? some guy in civilian clothes slowly tailing a random person walking down the street is my answer, the kid is heard talking to his girlfriend about some strange guy following him, his words conveying that he's trying to keep calm & not run from the guy, but just keep walking. Sounds to me like a scared kid, he's not the one following people around... he did not instigate any fear, Zimmerman did.

I may have missed it, but what crime was witnessed? what did Zimmerman see that was so outside the law that he felt it necessary to play amateur cop, complete with gun? it may sound silly, but just looking at him makes me think 'moron', you just know he came off as hamhanded & stupid... telling the dispatcher who warned him not to approach, as he gets out of the car to approach... 'these ****** always get away', scaring the kid even more with his lack of any real symbol of authority. Until we hear otherwise, the only crime committed belongs to Zimmerman.

The kid hasnt been shown to have started the fear, hasnt been shown to have been committing any crime & wasnt the one packing heat... unless other evidence turns up, its pretty simple imo.
Oh but nooooo - Trayvon is a heat packing thug that sucker punched an innocent bystander who in fear of his life because his nose was bloodied shot this thug and rid the world of another LA gang member / pawnmower


This is what I have been saying all along - looks like a duck, quacks like a duck .... Zimmerman is short on nights in his own bed
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:21 PM   #654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KS Smitty View Post
Not at all, hell Trayvon wouldn't even be 21 in 6 years. I agree perspective is everything.
He was 17, the person walking the dog was 13 from my understanding..
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:23 PM   #655
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Definitely. I was thinking it might fall underneath the dying declaration exception but I am not a lawyer.
From what little I've been able to read on this, it wouldn't appear to fall under that exception.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:45 PM   #656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free View Post
The kid hasnt been shown to have started the fear, hasnt been shown to have been committing any crime & wasnt the one packing heat... unless other evidence turns up, its pretty simple imo.
Well, as I said before...If you approach someone and say 'hey what are you doing in this neighborhood' then does that give them the right to punch you?

Your argument goes both ways...

Following someone and asking them what they are doing does indeed cause fear. But causing fear is not against the law. Punching someone in the face is against the law.....unless is is self defense....and so it goes around in a circle.....does following someone and asking them what theyre doing warrant a punch to the face? Does a punch to the face warrant a bullet to the chest? Sometimes the law isn't clear, and sometimes only a judge or jury can answer these questions.

I don't think Zimmerman will 'rot in jail' as some suggest. Maybe 10 years tops, simply becuase I don't think anyone believes seriously that zimmerman intended to kill Trayvon when he started following him. It isn't murder if that is the case...it must be a lesser crime.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:51 PM   #657
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Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Well, as I said before...If you approach someone and say 'hey what are you doing in this neighborhood' then does that give them the right to punch you?

Your argument goes both ways...

Following someone and asking them what they are doing does indeed cause fear. But causing fear is not against the law. Punching someone in the face is against the law.....unless is is self defense....and so it goes around in a circle.....does following someone and asking them what theyre doing warrant a punch to the face? Does a punch to the face warrant a bullet to the chest? Sometimes the law isn't clear, and sometimes only a judge or jury can answer these questions.

I don't think Zimmerman will 'rot in jail' as some suggest. Maybe 10 years tops, simply becuase I don't think anyone believes seriously that zimmerman intended to kill Trayvon when he started following him. It isn't murder if that is the case...it must be a lesser crime.
how long did he follow him? If you were being followed for a while, fear would build up into thinking you are going to need to defend yourself and real soon.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:55 PM   #658
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Murder in the second, if he's lucky.

The entire PD there looks like a joke, he should've been jailed that very day.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:57 PM   #659
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Terrible just freaking terrible. THis kind of thing is just terrible to read about.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:58 PM   #660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bump View Post
how long did he follow him? If you were being followed for a while, fear would build up into thinking you are going to need to defend yourself and real soon.
I guess I was just asking a rhetorical question...

How long of following someone gives them the right to punch you in the face?

3 minutes? 5 minutes?
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