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Old 03-08-2012, 11:50 AM  
Bump Bump is offline
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Neighborhood watch captain shoots innocent black youth and doesn't even get arrested

http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida...044537742.html




ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - The family of a 17-year-old African-American boy shot to death last month in his gated Florida community by a white Neighborhood Watch captain wants to see the captain arrested, the family's lawyer said on Wednesday.

Trayvon Martin was shot dead after he took a break from watching NBA All-Star game television coverage to walk 10 minutes to a convenience store to buy snacks including Skittles candy requested by his 13-year-old brother, Chad, the family's lawyer Ben Crump said.

"He was a good kid," Crump said in an interview, adding that the family would issue a call for the Watch captain's arrest at a news conference on Thursday. "On his way home, a Neighborhood Watch loose cannon shot and killed him."

[Related: Fla. teen avoids deportation]

Trayvon, who lived in Miami with his mother, had been visiting his father and stepmother in a gated townhome community called The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, 20 miles north of Orlando.

As Trayvon returned to the townhome, Sanford police received a 911 call reporting a suspicious person.

Although names are blacked out on the police report, Crump and media reports at the time of the shooting identified the caller as George Zimmerman who is listed in the community's newsletter as the Neighborhood Watch captain.

Without waiting for police to arrive, Crump said, Zimmerman confronted Trayvon, who was on the sidewalk near his home. By the time police got there, Trayvon was dead of a single gunshot to the chest.

"What do the police find in his pocket? Skittles," Crump said. "A can of Arizona ice tea in his jacket pocket and Skittles in his front pocket for his brother Chad."

Zimmerman could not be reached for comment on Wednesday evening at a phone number listed for him on the community's newsletter.

Crump said the family was concerned that police might decide to consider the shooting as self defense, and that police have ignored the family's request for a copy of the original 911 call, which they think will shed light on the incidents.

"If the 911 protocol across the country held to form here, they told him not to get involved. He disobeyed that order," said Ryan Julison, a spokesman for the family.

"He (Zimmerman) didn't have to get out of his car," said Crump, who has prepared a public records lawsuit to file on Thursday if the family doesn't get the 911 tape. "If he never gets out of his car, there is no reason for self-defense. Trayvon only has skittles. He has the gun."

Since Trayvon, a high school junior who wanted to be a pilot, was black and Zimmerman is white, Crump said race is "the 600 pound elephant in the room."

"Why is this kid suspicious in the first place? I think a stereotype must have been placed on the kid," Crump said.

(Editing By Cynthia Johnston and Peter Bohan)

Last edited by Bump; 07-12-2013 at 11:19 PM..
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Old 07-27-2013, 03:27 PM   #6751
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Originally Posted by 2bikemike View Post
If someone is following me my first instinct would be to get away. But I don't go around getting in fights. I will however defend myself or family if need be.

The bottom line in this whole thing is both made bad decisions that ended one life and ruined the other.

The media and the race baiters have made the whole episode a racial one where racial animosity played no part.

Why you keep picking at the scab of all this is beyond me.
You're right on point 1, which is why I think Trayvon's response was wrong and inexcusable.

I pick at the scab because while both sides are busy blaming each other, it's amazing how few people will acknowledge mistakes made by the side they're trying to defend. You're right -- likely two parties did dumb things that night. Unfortunately, in America, we've built an adversarial culture whether it's race or politics where one side does 100% of the things right and the opponent does 100% of the things wrong.

Which is a shame, because underneath all this is a compelling conversation about responsible gun ownership, and how far citizens should be allowed to go in protecting our streets. That's the question I keep coming back to, but it keeps getting diverted into the tug of war of who was right and who was wrong.
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Old 07-27-2013, 03:29 PM   #6752
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Originally Posted by scott free View Post
Because an FBI lie detector test said Zimmerman was telling the truth about it, thats why.
You've got to be kidding me. Your entire opinion is based on a completely flawed test? You know that OJ Simpson passed a polygraph test too, right?
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Old 07-27-2013, 03:38 PM   #6753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
You're right on point 1, which is why I think Trayvon's response was wrong and inexcusable.

I pick at the scab because while both sides are busy blaming each other, it's amazing how few people will acknowledge mistakes made by the side they're trying to defend. You're right -- likely two parties did dumb things that night. Unfortunately, in America, we've built an adversarial culture whether it's race or politics where one side does 100% of the things right and the opponent does 100% of the things wrong.

Which is a shame, because underneath all this is a compelling conversation about responsible gun ownership, and how far citizens should be allowed to go in protecting our streets. That's the question I keep coming back to, but it keeps getting diverted into the tug of war of who was right and who was wrong.
I can honestly say if George Zimmerman was the blackest black man that ever walked the earth and Trayvon Martin was the whitest white guy in the history of the world , I would STILL say GZ was justified to kill a man beating his head into the concrete exactly as I do now.

Would You?
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Old 07-27-2013, 03:41 PM   #6754
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
So you've never visited somebody in an apartment complex. And you've never put a hoody up on a rainy night. And there is nothing that suggests he was walking in other people's yards.
Apt complex has a walkway, and common sense says that there will ostensibly be people that you don't know coming and going.

It's one of the many differences between an apt complex and a housing community...

It wasn't an apt complex, so your argument is invalid.

And if you read the court transcripts, you would know that, yes, Trayvon Martin was cutting through yards...which contributed to Z's assertion that TM's behavior was indeed suspicious.
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It was mind boggling watching those guys run out of bounds again and again and again. I still can't believe it.
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Old 07-27-2013, 03:44 PM   #6755
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bikemike View Post
If someone is following me my first instinct would be to get away.
if I'm doing nothing wrong??

then no one's 'following' me.

at that point, if I'm just out 'walking around', then the guy behind me is probably just out walking around like me...
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Old 07-27-2013, 03:45 PM   #6756
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
You've got to be kidding me. Your entire opinion is based on a completely flawed test? You know that OJ Simpson passed a polygraph test too, right?
He's already asked for a link to that.

And a link was provided claiming your claim he passed is false
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Old 07-27-2013, 03:46 PM   #6757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
You've got to be kidding me. Your entire opinion is based on a completely flawed test? You know that OJ Simpson passed a polygraph test too, right?
My opinion is based on several things, the polygraph being one of them.

I just did a google search for OJ polygraph and found nothing, not one thing that says he passed, but among other things i did find this...

http://articles.philly.com/1996-10-1...-brown-simpson
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Old 07-27-2013, 03:50 PM   #6758
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Originally Posted by R8ers View Post
I can honestly say if George Zimmerman was the blackest black man that ever walked the earth and Trayvon Martin was the whitest white guy in the history of the world , I would STILL say GZ was justified to kill a man beating his head into the concrete exactly as I do now.

Would You?
Yes. But my point has never been about that.

Whether Zimmerman was mexican, white, black... I want to know why a man who is conceal/carrying a firearm reports a person he believes is "up to no good" then has the stupidity to find himself in the middle of a courtyard on a dark night (then claims he was innocently looking for street signs). He is either stupid and reckless, or he's lying.

Like I said, the minute Trayvon doubled back, TM became the dumber person that night and Z was absolutely justified in shooting him in self defense.
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Old 07-27-2013, 03:52 PM   #6759
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
OJ failed at least one test. F. Lee Bailey stopped the lie detector test part way through because it was going so badly for Simpson, according to the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/06/05/us...f-simpson.html
.
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Old 07-27-2013, 03:55 PM   #6760
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Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO View Post
He's already asked for a link to that.

And a link was provided claiming your claim he passed is false
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Fair enough. It doesn't change the fact that lie detector tests are very inaccurate and shouldn't even be in the conversation of validating whether a testimony is accurate or inaccurate.
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Old 07-27-2013, 04:05 PM   #6761
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Fair enough. It doesn't change the fact that lie detector tests are very inaccurate and shouldn't even be in the conversation of validating whether a testimony is accurate or inaccurate.
So they have no merit at all and shouldnt even be in the conversation? is that why they're extensively used by law enforcement agencies across the world, is that why prospective CIA employees are given multiple tests to determine their fitness for duty, is that why all military branches use them to help determine if someone is worthy of a security clearance?
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Old 07-27-2013, 04:28 PM   #6762
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Originally Posted by scott free View Post
So they have no merit at all and shouldnt even be in the conversation? is that why they're extensively used by law enforcement agencies across the world, is that why prospective CIA employees are given multiple tests to determine their fitness for duty, is that why all military branches use them to help determine if someone is worthy of a security clearance?
They are very often not admissable in courts because they have an accuracy that ranges from 70-90%, and in many cases, it may not detect accuracy if the person believes he/she is actually telling the truth (even if he/she is wrong). It's fine as a screening procedure because you can take negative results and do a double-check afterward. Again, a lie detector measures physiological changes, whether that's voice changes, sweat, etc.... People can coach their way out of that and they can also become so nervous that they set the thing off unwarranted.

And it's irrelevant because the lie detector test only asked him if he feared for his life and if he confronted Trayvon. That doesn't tell you much about the accuracy of the rest of his testimony.
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Old 07-27-2013, 04:32 PM   #6763
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Fair enough. It doesn't change the fact that lie detector tests are very inaccurate and shouldn't even be in the conversation of validating whether a testimony is accurate or inaccurate.
So you were just making that up?
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Old 07-27-2013, 04:34 PM   #6764
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
And it's irrelevant because the lie detector test only asked him if he feared for his life and if he confronted Trayvon. That doesn't tell you much about the accuracy of the rest of his testimony.
Do you really think it was a simple two or three question test?

They didnt go into minute detail about this case in particular, with all that was riding on it?... c'mon.
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Old 07-27-2013, 04:43 PM   #6765
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Originally Posted by scott free View Post
Do you really think it was a simple two or three question test?

They didnt go into minute detail about this case in particular, with all that was riding on it?... c'mon.
The lie detector portion was a few minutes long. You can look it up on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjRp-vIvTNg
Lie detector test starts at 56 minute mark. YOu can watch 10 minutes of it, or you can take my word for it. Those were the only 2 questions of relevance they asked.
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