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Old 04-06-2012, 09:25 PM  
lcarus lcarus is offline
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Ancient Aliens

I'm addicted to this show. I love it. I think most of their theories are complete speculation and BS, but just stuff about the mysteries of the ancient world are astonishing, regardless of the spin they put on it.

Are there any other shows, movies, or documentaries about the wonders of the ancient world?
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:50 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by beach tribe View Post
Just because WE can't account for all the money they spend, doesn't mean that the people who actually spend it can't.

You really think that the government can't keep secrets. They can. They have a TON of shit, that we don't know shit about. Hell, they flew the blackbird for something like 20 years before the public even knew it existed.
They built that huge ****ing whatever it is under the Denver airport in front of hundreds of Contractors, and no one knows shit about anything.
People from area 51 claim they went fishing, had their families picnic, and vacation together, and could not tell you one thing about what the other person's actual job there is. Governments have been honing the craft of secrecy for 100s or even 1000s of years. They are VERY good at it.
That sentence kinda negates its own meaning.

And the Blackbird was declassified the same year it flew its first flight. The president made a public announcement about it the same year. They didn't hide it. But still, it was the source of many UFO reports for sure.

People who work on highly top secret projects, such as what you would find at Groom Lake, shouldn't really know everything about each others jobs. I'm not sure why that should be a surprise. That's just security protocol. It's not evidence of alien conspiracy, just high level security.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:57 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
Way more info than was really required. What I was getting at was that when he first made claims he did so because he felt his life was being threatened after he was fired for showing off some stuff to his friends.

I notice you highlighted the schooling thing but I would say your faith in others to not do whatever it takes to discredit someone or tarnish their reputation is a bit too high.

That said, when talking about Lazar one has to certainly be wary of the later stories, some of which you pointed out. I personally believe his initial stories are solid but that he eventually started making himself look bad by trying to stay relevant and trying to counteract the debunkers with even more elaborate stories that unfortunately get bunched with his whole history and lead people to say none is true instead of parts.

Legitimate question: In stories such as this or those UFO/alien related do you believe everything you read or see that coincides with your attitudes and opinions? Or are you willing to see truths here and there and see that an extremist in a opinion based topic is an extremist regardless and will do or say whatever necessary to support their views?
I find it next to impossible to believe that the US Government would somehow edit someone's old existing school records. Especially when that someone is a proven liar and criminal. There's plenty of evidence of complete crazy that came straight out of Lazar's mouth. The government didn't have to work very hard at all if the plan was to make him look loony.

Regarding your question, I like to think that I view each piece of information independently. I'm not really biased on the topic. I absolutely believe in extraterrestrial intelligence. It's out there. I just don't believe that our government is in cahoots with the lizard men and hiding it from the citizens and the rest of the world in any way, shape, or form...
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Old 04-13-2012, 06:17 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC Fish View Post
I find it next to impossible to believe that the US Government would somehow edit someone's old existing school records. Especially when that someone is a proven liar and criminal. There's plenty of evidence of complete crazy that came straight out of Lazar's mouth. The government didn't have to work very hard at all if the plan was to make him look loony.

Regarding your question, I like to think that I view each piece of information independently. I'm not really biased on the topic. I absolutely believe in extraterrestrial intelligence. It's out there. I just don't believe that our government is in cahoots with the lizard men and hiding it from the citizens and the rest of the world in any way, shape, or form...
Maybe not in cahoots with them, but I believe they definitely know a lot about them, and have extreme undeniable evidence that they aren't sharing. I'm of the opinion that maybe we've gotten their spacecraft before, and gotten a lot of technology from it. We've had a giant leap in technology over the past 50 or 60 years, especially in aviation. Hell, some of our jets look like alien spacecraft. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't be shocked if it were true.
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Old 04-13-2012, 07:00 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC Fish View Post
I find it next to impossible to believe that the US Government would somehow edit someone's old existing school records. Especially when that someone is a proven liar and criminal. There's plenty of evidence of complete crazy that came straight out of Lazar's mouth. The government didn't have to work very hard at all if the plan was to make him look loony.

Regarding your question, I like to think that I view each piece of information independently. I'm not really biased on the topic. I absolutely believe in extraterrestrial intelligence. It's out there. I just don't believe that our government is in cahoots with the lizard men and hiding it from the citizens and the rest of the world in any way, shape, or form...
They found old news paper clippings from when Lazar worked as a physicist for the companies that he said he worked for before area 51, yet there's no tax records, job history...nothing.
This is why it's so easy to keep secret. Someone could come right out and tell you "we have the alien ships" and you would say exactly what you've said throughout this thread.
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Old 04-13-2012, 07:40 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by beach tribe View Post
They found old news paper clippings from when Lazar worked as a physicist for the companies that he said he worked for before area 51, yet there's no tax records, job history...nothing.
This is why it's so easy to keep secret. Someone could come right out and tell you "we have the alien ships" and you would say exactly what you've said throughout this thread.
Who's "they"? And I find that pretty ridiculous because if Lazar is who he claimed he himself should have some proof in his possession that he did have a formal scientific education and work experience. He should have old tax documents and such, but conveniently he can't produce any proof himself. You have to admit that makes him look really really shady if he himself can't provide any proof or records. I'm sure he has a government conspiracy answer for that too though huh?

Lots of people have come out and said "we have the aliens ships". The problem is that it's all talk. And even if the US government knows something, why don't we see any conclusive evidence in other countries where the US has no influence or power to conspire? Why don't we see the US accused of this by their enemies? Wouldn't that be a pretty powerful piece of info for those against the US to expose?
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:36 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by KC Fish View Post
Who's "they"? And I find that pretty ridiculous because if Lazar is who he claimed he himself should have some proof in his possession that he did have a formal scientific education and work experience. He should have old tax documents and such, but conveniently he can't produce any proof himself. You have to admit that makes him look really really shady if he himself can't provide any proof or records. I'm sure he has a government conspiracy answer for that too though huh?

Lots of people have come out and said "we have the aliens ships". The problem is that it's all talk. And even if the US government knows something, why don't we see any conclusive evidence in other countries where the US has no influence or power to conspire? Why don't we see the US accused of this by their enemies? Wouldn't that be a pretty powerful piece of info for those against the US to expose?
there are tons of reports of ufo's in russia, germany,englad an the rest of euro country's.but all of them will not come out an publicly say they knew something if they did. look how you react when you here a story of a ufo. which leader would tell his people anything about ufo's knowing perfectly well most people will think they lost there mind. you could very easy lose control of your country this way. the people would lose faith in there government.

then the next big issue is religion. most places are very religious an if aliens are founds it would shake these faiths to the very core. public reaction would be extreme an it would just be creating a mess.

simple truth is, if aliens are found no government in there right mind would tell the world about it if they can avoid it
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:42 AM   #112
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Lie detector test shows absolutely ZERO signs of deception

The government agency he said he worked for said they had no records of him, yet when the reporter found the old telephone directory he was in it. Even the hospital he was born in had no record of him, yet his delivering doctor said yes, he was born there.
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:45 AM   #113
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And it was said here that he was proven to be a liar. I need a link cause I can't find it.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:33 AM   #114
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Looks to me after researching the subject that lazar realized he could make some bank after he came out with his story, so he decided to jazz it up, and run with it.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:36 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by beach tribe View Post
And it was said here that he was proven to be a liar. I need a link cause I can't find it.
I'll let Stanley Friedman answer that. You do believe Stan don't you?

Quote:
Incredible claims have been made about Bob Lazar for years. He supposedly is a physicist with an MS in Physics from MIT and an MS in Electronics from the California Institute of Technology. He was a “Scientist” for Los Alamos National Laboratory, and obtained a job back-engineering UFOs at a very secret site S-4 near Area 51 in Nevada through noted Physicist, the late Dr. Edward Teller.

Supposedly he figured out how saucers work using Element 115 — matter/anti-matter, etc. He was able to steal a small quantity of 115 from the 500 pounds available, but this was stolen back. There was indeed an announcement in early 2004 about the production of 4 atoms of element 115 by operating a huge European accelerator for many weeks. It has a very short half life so there is no way to accumulate pounds of it. He supposedly came forward with his story despite death threats because he thought the public has a right to know. Videotapes are available with his claims.

It is all BUNK.

Not one shred of evidence has been put forth to support this story: No diplomas, no résumés, no transcripts, no memberships in professional organizations, no papers, no pages from MIT or Caltech yearbooks. He also mentioned, in a phone conversation with me, California State University at Northridge and Pierce Junior College — also in the San Fernando Valley, California. I checked all four schools. Pierce said he had taken electronics courses in the late 1970s. The other three schools never heard of him.

The page from the Los Alamos National Lab phone book with Lazar’s name on it clearly states that it includes employees of the DOE and outside contractor, Kirk Meyer. “K/M” follows Lazar’s name. This proves he worked for K/M, not LANL.

I checked with LANL’s personnel department for Lazar’s name and that of an old colleague. They found my guy, but not Lazar.

He was publicly asked when he got his MS from MIT. He said “Let me see now, I think it was probably 1982.” Nobody getting an MS from MIT would not know the year immediately. He was asked to name some of his profs, He said: “Let’s see now, Bill Duxler will remember me from the physics department at Caltech.” I located Dr. Duxler. He’s a Pierce Junior College physics prof, and never taught at Caltech. Lazar was registered in one of his courses at the same time Lazar was supposedly at MIT! Nobody who can go to MIT goes to Pierce JC, not to mention the rather long commute between LA and Cambridge, Mass.

I checked his High School in New York State. He graduated in August, not with his class. The only science course he took was chemistry. He ranked 261 out of 369, which is in the bottom third. There is no way he would have been admitted by MIT or Caltech. An MS in Physics from MIT requires a thesis. No such thesis exists at MIT, and he is not on a commencement list. The notion that the government wiped his CIVILIAN records clean is absurd. I checked with the Legal Counsel at MIT — no way to wipe all his records clean. The Physics department never heard of him and he is not a member of the American Physical Society.

When he declared bankruptcy in the mid 1980s for almost $300,000.00 he listed his occupation as a self-employed film processor. With MS degrees from MIT and Caltech? Caltech would not have accepted him for an MS program, if he already had one from MIT.

His propulsion scheme sounds good (as do many science fiction stories), but makes no real sense especially in view of how difficult it would be to add protons to #115. Gravity wave amplification sounds great but what does it mean?

He could not have gotten a Compartmentalized Security clearance having operated a brothel. His W-2 form from the Department of Naval Intelligence totals under $1000.00, at most a week’s pay for a scientist. You can’t get a security clearance in a week.

Scientists leave trails. Lazar is NOT a scientist. He couldn’t even answer scientific questions put to him. An excellent review of Bob’s “Physics” can be seen at web.archive.org/web/20061220030435/http://www.serve.com/mahood/lazar/critiq.htm.

I should add that Bob is a bright and talented guy who operated a jet powered car, put on fireworks displays, and apparently helped physics professors working at the Los Alamos Meson accelerator facility.
Source from Friedman's own website: http://www.stantonfriedman.com/index...fdt=2011.01.07
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:28 PM   #116
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(Stanton, not Stanley)

There's no question in my mind that *if* there was a known alien presence of any kind here, that the people in power globally would do everything they possibly could to hide that from the public. For the simple reason that it would be a devastating challenge to the fundamental beliefs of 90% of the world's population. While I believe that a certain segment of us are 'wired' in such a way as to accept such a reality, I think it would be virtually apocalyptic to the rest, the end of the world as they know it. I don't even want to think about the impact it would have on societies across the globe.

Note the word 'if'. I am not saying a coverup is happening. I don't have any idea if there's anything to cover up. All I'm saying is that I believe the people in charge would, if faced with this reality, believe that covering it up would be the best course of action for the world as a whole. And I agree with them, if that's in fact what they believe.

Although, that said, I would want to know.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:45 PM   #117
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(Stanton, not Stanley)

There's no question in my mind that *if* there was a known alien presence of any kind here, that the people in power globally would do everything they possibly could to hide that from the public. For the simple reason that it would be a devastating challenge to the fundamental beliefs of 90% of the world's population. While I believe that a certain segment of us are 'wired' in such a way as to accept such a reality, I think it would be virtually apocalyptic to the rest, the end of the world as they know it. I don't even want to think about the impact it would have on societies across the globe.

Note the word 'if'. I am not saying a coverup is happening. I don't have any idea if there's anything to cover up. All I'm saying is that I believe the people in charge would, if faced with this reality, believe that covering it up would be the best course of action for the world as a whole. And I agree with them, if that's in fact what they believe.

Although, that said, I would want to know.

perfectly said. fully agree with everything you said
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:49 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by KC Fish View Post
I'll let Stanley Friedman answer that. You do believe Stan don't you?



Source from Friedman's own website: http://www.stantonfriedman.com/index...fdt=2011.01.07
Thanks for digging this up.
Now convinced Lazar is 99% FOS.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:27 PM   #119
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:02 PM   #120
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