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Old 05-03-2012, 03:53 PM  
lcarus lcarus is offline
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Silly argument about paintings

I am at work today and I was talking to my co-worker about "The Scream", which sold at an auction for nearly 120 million dollars. Anyway, I referred to it as a painting, and he quickly corrected me "IT'S NOT A PAINTING, IT'S A PASTEL!". Which is correct, it is a pastel. But isn't a pastel still a painting? I looked up "painting" and it says Painting is the practice of applying paint, pigment, color or other medium to a surface (support base).

I also found a billion videos of artists using pastel crayons (or whatever they're called) and referring to their work as "paintings" like this one for example


So no, it isn't a painting in the literal sense that it was painted with paint and a brush, but is it still wrong to refer to it as a painting?
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:41 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Backwards Masking View Post
technically it's not a painting in my book, it's a pastel, but i would never jump any one's shit for calling it a painting, especially if, like Icarus, they didn't even know.

i painted my avatar.
not to be contrary..but TECHNICALLY it is a painting. Just like a watercolor is a painting... or a fresco or (insert other medium here). The difference between a painting and a drawing(sketch) is not the medium... it's more about the form.

At least that's the case according to the various "experts" and Websters.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:57 PM   #47
Backwards Masking Backwards Masking is offline
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
not to be contrary..but TECHNICALLY it is a painting. Just like a watercolor is a painting... or a fresco or (insert other medium here). The difference between a painting and a drawing(sketch) is not the medium... it's more about the form.

At least that's the case according to the various "experts" and Websters.
you're absolutely right on all counts.

that's why i made sure to write "in my book". in my head i can refer to it as a "pastel painting" no problem, or even just a "painting", like other people, but it will never be "painting painting" because it was done in pastels.

there's nothing wrong with throwing all mediums together in casual conversation, but museums always make sure to describe them to a T next to their listings. i'm like them in that i'm super particular about making sure of exactly what's what.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:59 PM
Backwards Masking
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:11 PM   #48
Dave Lane Dave Lane is offline
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Technically Paintings are considered oil paint only in fine art.

Watercolor, pastel, chalk, gouache and pencil / pen are drawings.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:14 PM   #49
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:24 PM   #50
AustinChief AustinChief is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Technically Paintings are considered oil paint only in fine art.

Watercolor, pastel, chalk, gouache and pencil / pen are drawings.
Not really.

Yes, Oil paintings are the ones you simply call "paintings", the rest are "insert medium" paintings. Watercolor paintings, pastel paintings, etc etc So I see where you are going with this... but they are NOT considered sketches/drawings. Well, not automatically some can be drawings or sketches or paintings.

Once again... drawing versus painting has little to nothing to do with the medium! I can't stress this enough.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:52 PM   #51
Backwards Masking Backwards Masking is offline
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Not really.

Yes, Oil paintings are the ones you simply call "paintings", the rest are "insert medium" paintings. Watercolor paintings, pastel paintings, etc etc So I see where you are going with this... but they are NOT considered sketches/drawings. Well, not automatically some can be drawings or sketches or paintings.

Once again... drawing versus painting has little to nothing to do with the medium! I can't stress this enough.
you are totally right, don't let the art snobs get you worked up, we'll do that.

if the traditional definition is true, only oil painters are painters, acrylic and watercolor painters are "drawers" - and that's not right.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:14 PM   #52
lcarus lcarus is offline
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Also.. if you are wrong about the Scream.. then he would have to admit it is a Pastel Sketch? I doubt ANYONE would call it a sketch or drawing.
Actually, my brother, who also works with my co-worker and I at our trophy shop, feels it is a drawing. He got caught listening to this dumb argument all day. Now the little shit is registering here. Be sure to welcome him with a big middle finger.

He found this on the internet and thinks that makes it NOT a painting, though I feel it's just a writer trying to explain to the public that it isn't a traditional painting done with brush and oil paint, though it's still technically a pastel painting. The pigments used to make pastels is the same exact pigments used to make oil paint...

Munch's "The Scream" achieved another milestone: It now ranks as the most expensive drawing publicly sold. For this version of “The Scream” -- one of four -- is best described as a crayon or pastel drawing, not a painting, on board. The Munch Museum in Oslo owns a pastel as well as a painted version, while the National Gallery of Norway holds the earliest painting, dated 1893.
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...,3775078.story
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:30 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by lcarus View Post
Actually, my brother, who also works with my co-worker and I at our trophy shop, feels it is a drawing. He got caught listening to this dumb argument all day. Now the little shit is registering here. Be sure to welcome him with a big middle finger.

He found this on the internet and thinks that makes it NOT a painting, though I feel it's just a writer trying to explain to the public that it isn't a traditional painting done with brush and oil paint, though it's still technically a pastel painting. The pigments used to make pastels is the same exact pigments used to make oil paint...

Munch's "The Scream" achieved another milestone: It now ranks as the most expensive drawing publicly sold. For this version of “The Scream” -- one of four -- is best described as a crayon or pastel drawing, not a painting, on board. The Munch Museum in Oslo owns a pastel as well as a painted version, while the National Gallery of Norway holds the earliest painting, dated 1893.
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...,3775078.story

The end of this argument should have been when it was shown that there are 3 or 4 societies that have been around for many years that are dedicated to this medium... and they define it as pastel painting. (unless of course you use pastels to make a drawing... which this is not)

yes, it is not an OIL painting... it is still a painting just like a watercolor is.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:34 PM   #54
The Dawg The Dawg is offline
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Modern art sucks. That's all I can really contribute to this topic. The Scream is a cool painting or pastel or w/e
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:34 PM   #55
lcarus lcarus is offline
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
The end of this argument should have been when it was shown that there are 3 or 4 societies that have been around for many years that are dedicated to this medium... and they define it as pastel painting. (unless of course you use pastels to make a drawing... which this is not)

yes, it is not an OIL painting... it is still a painting just like a watercolor is.
Yeah lol, I emailed an art instructor at San Diego Art Institute this:

Me: Is it wrong to consider the pastel version of "The Scream" a painting? I know it isn't a traditional painting, made with paint and a brush, but aren't pastels still referred to as paintings? Does a "painting" have to be made strictly with paint? Can't a painting be made with pastel, resins, or pastes?

He responded with this:

Him: You are correct a “painting” can be created from a number of different materials and does not strictly need to be made from paint- it can also be colored pencils, chaulk pastels, oil pastels, and even collage or any combination of the items.

I bet that still won't be good enough though.....
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:41 PM   #56
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The Scream (Norwegian: Skrik) is the name given to each of four versions of a composition, created as both paintings and lithographs by the Expressionist artist Edvard Munch between 1893 and 1910. The works all show an agonized figure against a red sky. The landscape in the background is the Oslofjord, viewed from Ekeberg, Oslo.
Edvard Munch created four versions of The Scream in various media. The National Gallery, Oslo, holds one of two painted versions (1893, shown to right). The Munch Museum holds the other painted version (1910, see gallery) and one pastel. The fourth version (pastel, 1895) sold for a record $119,922,500 at Sotheby's Impressionist and Modern art auction on 2 May 2012 to an unspecified private buyer.[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scream
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:50 PM   #57
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According to this definition from Merriam Webster Dictionary Online, a pastel is a drawing, but is a drawing a painting?

Definition of PASTEL

1
: a paste made of powdered pigment ranging from pale to deep colors and used for making crayons; also : a crayon made of such paste
2
a : a drawing in pastel
b : the process or art of drawing with pastels
3
: a light literary sketch
4
: any of various pale or light colors
See pastel defined for English-language learners »
See pastel defined for kids »
Examples of PASTEL

She has a collection of pastels.
She prefers a pastel like light yellow.
The room is painted in a pastel shade of blue.
Origin of PASTEL

French, from Italian pastello, from Late Latin pastellus woad, from diminutive of pasta
First Known Use: 1662
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:53 PM   #58
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lcarus, did you ever get out from under your old man's thumb and your meddling brother at that crappy trophy shop you work at? Your resume looked great and I'm sure your life will improve when you're no longer working alongside your loser family.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:59 PM   #59
SilentHell SilentHell is offline
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lcarus, did you ever get out from under your old man's thumb and your meddling brother at that crappy trophy shop you work at? Your resume looked great and I'm sure your life will improve when you're no longer working alongside your loser family.
Lol. I am his brother and I am far from a loser. . Too funny that he gets on here and complains about his life. He does need to do something about it
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:02 AM   #60
AustinChief AustinChief is offline
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Originally Posted by SilentHell View Post
According to this definition from Merriam Webster Dictionary Online, a pastel is a drawing, but is a drawing a painting?

Definition of PASTEL

1
: a paste made of powdered pigment ranging from pale to deep colors and used for making crayons; also : a crayon made of such paste
2
a : a drawing in pastel
b : the process or art of drawing with pastels
3
: a light literary sketch
4
: any of various pale or light colors
See pastel defined for English-language learners »
See pastel defined for kids »
Examples of PASTEL

She has a collection of pastels.
She prefers a pastel like light yellow.
The room is painted in a pastel shade of blue.
Origin of PASTEL

French, from Italian pastello, from Late Latin pastellus woad, from diminutive of pasta
First Known Use: 1662
A pastel can be a drawing.. it can also be a painting. Drawings and paintings are NOT defined by the medium they are done in. PERIOD. Jesus. How hard is this to understand.
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