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Old 05-08-2012, 06:14 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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July 1st: Federal student loan rate doubles.

The Senate attempted to vote today to prevent that from happening. They were going to keep their vote revenue-neutral by closing a particular tax loophole used by the very wealthy.

It was blocked, by Republicans.

I didn't see a thread up about this. I just figured we needed to know about it.

Our students are doing exactly what Republicans and conservatives want them to -- they are proactively doing what they can to make life better for themselves by getting an education.

We're potentially rewarding them for their efforts by doubling what they will have to pay back, in order to protect a loophole for millionaires.

The Republican Party, theoretically for pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. Theoretically for simplifying the tax code. Is violating both principles, it seems, with their actions today.

We've got a couple months. Maybe things change soon.
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:09 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
After 20 years, you are who you are. I don't think most non-traditional students get the full benefit of a degree, unless they go with an end goal in mind (i.e. I want to be an engineer, so I'm going to get that degree and worry about only that career track).

I think people that point out that many college students don't need a degree for the job they have forget that A) In an open job market, a college degree is going to put you ahead of a ton of people, even if said degree has nothing to do with the job (in other words, I don't think the $12/hr juvenile security guard would've gotten her job without it, even if the job doesn't require it) and B) College is, believe it or not, an excellent 'finishing school' for most young folks.

Some just get shitty and drop out. But even some of the more committed drinkers in college learn how to function in social settings better. They learn how to deal with basic 'life' shit in an environment where there is an actual support structure of friends that are going through the same thing. College is essentially a 'strength in numbers' approach to the growing pains that accompany the maturation process. If you just go from HS out on your own, you're in an adult world with a bunch of people that probably don't care a lot about you. You're not pulling on the same side of the rope with a ton of peers that are often going through the same troubles.

I think college simply makes a more rounded individual more often than not. It's not fool-proof; some people get nothing from it. But a vast majority of college students are significantly better across the board for having done it.

Over large numbers, college is absolutely something we should be encouraging. If you look at it as less of a trade school and more of a halfway house to true adulthood, I think you'll get a better idea of what it's best purpose is.
That seems to be the mindset of virtually every non trad that I've talked to. They've been down the road and seen what it's like and want to change the future rather than be resigned to the present. As far as the college experience, I could give a poo about that. I'm well beyond my life revolving around the weekend or social settings.
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:14 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini View Post
So you're saying being fiscally prepared is short sighted and stupid huh? If you read what I said I listed another option and that's getting student loans but pay the 6.3% interest rate. Some of us worked and saved in high school and were able to have at least a manageable debt. There's also nothing wrong with going to a JUCO for a few years to save money. Novel concept eh?

Government price control doesn't work. You're going to have to allow the market to correct itself if you want to fix the problem. Keeping prices artificially low creates bubbles we've seen this time and time again.
I worked my ass off in high school - 30 hour weeks more often than not and 40+ during the summers.

And without getting most of my school paid for via scholarship and going to a relatively cheap school, I'd have ended up taking on a ton of debt. Out of state or private schools would've been completely prohibitive.

High school aged males were paying $170/mo for insurance on beater cars with no comp coverage. There's fuel costs and even nominal car payments aren't free. And whether you like it or not, dating is a part of HS and that shit isn't cheap.

Oh, and if given a choice between floating an extra loan or going to JUCO, I'd tell my kid to suck it up and float the loan 100 times out of 100. JUCO is just 2 more years of HS only at least HS actually does have a fair amount of driven people in it, as opposed to JUCO where you're pretty much pulling from the bottom of the barrel. JUCO is a joke and does absolutely nothing that a 4-year institution does to prepare you for life after school.
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:21 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Oh, and if given a choice between floating an extra loan or going to JUCO, I'd tell my kid to suck it up and float the loan 100 times out of 100. JUCO is just 2 more years of HS only at least HS actually does have a fair amount of driven people in it, as opposed to JUCO where you're pretty much pulling from the bottom of the barrel. JUCO is a joke and does absolutely nothing that a 4-year institution does to prepare you for life after school.
How is a JUCO just 2 more years of high school? Nearly all of my credits at JCCC transferred over. Meaning my first 2 years of college were 3X less than friends who went to a university right off the bat. To say people who go to a JUCO aren't driven is a bunch of bullshit.
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:29 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
I worked my ass off in high school - 30 hour weeks more often than not and 40+ during the summers.

And without getting most of my school paid for via scholarship and going to a relatively cheap school, I'd have ended up taking on a ton of debt. Out of state or private schools would've been completely prohibitive.

High school aged males were paying $170/mo for insurance on beater cars with no comp coverage. There's fuel costs and even nominal car payments aren't free. And whether you like it or not, dating is a part of HS and that shit isn't cheap.
I worked hard as well in High School and I put most of the money I saved in bonds. I believe the interest rate back then as 4%. Needless to say I was able to cash out pay off most of my debt and start my own business with the money I worked and saved in high school.
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Old 05-11-2012, 03:14 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini View Post
How is a JUCO just 2 more years of high school? Nearly all of my credits at JCCC transferred over. Meaning my first 2 years of college were 3X less than friends who went to a university right off the bat. To say people who go to a JUCO aren't driven is a bunch of bullshit.
All my juco credits transferred, however I would say that there is a huge difference in the quality of education.
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Old 05-11-2012, 04:47 PM   #156
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by RaiderH8r View Post
Education is cheap. What we're talking about here is schooling. There's a difference. Education happens anywhere and at any time. Sometimes it even happens at school. Schooling is the act of attending an institution for the purpose of education which may or may not occur. Education is ongoing. Schooling ends. Education can be done by simply observing one's environment. Schooling costs money to be told to observe one's environment. Education is a process of self improvement. Schooling is the act of paying for somebody to improve yourself. Education sticks. Schooling is a box to be checked.
While that's a nice sentiment and all, I'm pretty sure most employers of potential college graduates don't give two shits about whatever it is you're describing -- they want shit on a resume. And yes, that's a box to be checked.

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Old 05-11-2012, 04:57 PM   #157
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All my juco credits transferred, however I would say that there is a huge difference in the quality of education.
When did you go to JCCC? I liked it there you can spend more 1 on 1 time with the teachers. Honestly I learned more in the classroom at JCCC. Frank Syracuse is a great man and can teach anyone economics.
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Old 05-11-2012, 05:13 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini View Post
When did you go to JCCC? I liked it there you can spend more 1 on 1 time with the teachers. Honestly I learned more in the classroom at JCCC. Frank Syracuse is a great man and can teach anyone economics.
I didn't. I went to Crowder college.
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Old 05-11-2012, 05:13 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
While that's a nice sentiment and all, I'm pretty sure most employers of potential college graduates don't give two shits about whatever it is you're describing -- they want shit on a resume. And yes, that's a box to be checked.

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Old 05-11-2012, 07:16 PM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
While that's a nice sentiment and all, I'm pretty sure most employers of potential college graduates don't give two shits about whatever it is you're describing -- they want shit on a resume. And yes, that's a box to be checked.

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And another schooled imbecile makes my point for me.

Steve Jobs' resume:
Graduated high school
Dropped out of college
Changed the world

Schooling trains automatons which is fine for some but let's stop pretending that college is where all worthwhile thinking happens and those who choose a different path are inherently inferior.
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Old 05-11-2012, 07:32 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by RaiderH8r View Post
And another schooled imbecile makes my point for me.

Steve Jobs' resume:
Graduated high school
Dropped out of college
Changed the world

Schooling trains automatons which is fine for some but let's stop pretending that college is where all worthwhile thinking happens and those who choose a different path are inherently inferior.
That is the ridiculous exception that proves the rule.

He didn't go out and get a job, he started his own business and was one of the very rare one in a million who got rich off of it. Not that entrepreneurship is bad, we need lots of people willing to walk that high-wire over unforgiving concrete without a net, but that is not realistic for most people.

The skilled trades are a very good avenue to go, a lot of people, instead of going to college, should probably try to apprentice into a trade, but that aside, its college or minimum wage.
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Old 05-11-2012, 07:59 PM   #162
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That is the ridiculous exception that proves the rule.

He didn't go out and get a job, he started his own business and was one of the very rare one in a million who got rich off of it. Not that entrepreneurship is bad, we need lots of people willing to walk that high-wire over unforgiving concrete without a net, but that is not realistic for most people.

The skilled trades are a very good avenue to go, a lot of people, instead of going to college, should probably try to apprentice into a trade, but that aside, its college or minimum wage.
Skilled trades are great. I am sick of the attitude that unless you shoehorn everybody into college then it is a failure. It isn't an appropriate fit for many and the actual benefit is debatable for most. But, like I said, college tuition should be pegged to the net annual income for minimum wage workers. Problem solved. Anybody can now afford to go to college.
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:08 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
I worked my ass off in high school - 30 hour weeks more often than not and 40+ during the summers.

And without getting most of my school paid for via scholarship and going to a relatively cheap school, I'd have ended up taking on a ton of debt. Out of state or private schools would've been completely prohibitive.

High school aged males were paying $170/mo for insurance on beater cars with no comp coverage. There's fuel costs and even nominal car payments aren't free. And whether you like it or not, dating is a part of HS and that shit isn't cheap.

Oh, and if given a choice between floating an extra loan or going to JUCO, I'd tell my kid to suck it up and float the loan 100 times out of 100. JUCO is just 2 more years of HS only at least HS actually does have a fair amount of driven people in it, as opposed to JUCO where you're pretty much pulling from the bottom of the barrel. JUCO is a joke and does absolutely nothing that a 4-year institution does to prepare you for life after school.
JUCO is a cheap way to get credits transferred dude. It's probably smarter to go to JUCO just to get the core classes out of the way since it's like a 1/3 of the price, as long as they will transfer to your school of choice.

Also, getting an associates degree in something specialized, where you learned a trade or skill is more valuable than a business degree or some other generalized major if you don't plan on going to grad school.

It's not bottom of the barrel and state colleges don't do shit to prepare you for the real world either, since there are no ass kissing classes.
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:26 PM   #164
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The number of things that track in a positive direction in relation to increased education is simply staggering.

Healthcare expenditures, physical fitness, mental health, quality of life indices, violent crime rates, etc...

All of it simply plummets as individuals become more and more educated.

And your position is that we should make it more difficult to get that education? Or that people should just put off the decision? How many people have you known to 'take a year off' after HS? And what % of them ever actually end up going to college? I knew several and none of them did. They put themselves into lifestyles and had money coming in - it's a hard thing to walk away from when you're 19.

This is shortsighted and stupid. The key to bringing costs down in any number of areas is education. As long as the government continues to ignore the skyrocketing costs of education (afterall, liberals work on college campuses), they are going to remain resigned to simply addressing symptoms instead of curing diseases.

Anything that makes it harder for individuals to continue on to higher education is foolish, IMO.
Except that the student loan racket has lead to education costs rising faster than the inflation rate. It increases demand. Plus it's a gravy train for the colleges. So they have facilities you'd expect to find in a resort with spas and things on campus. Higher education is another areas where govt intervened to make something more affordable or available but led to exhorbitant price increases. The other is health care.

I would much rather see much less aid, because then the colleges can't continuously jack up rates, they'd have to lure more students. There would be more price competition as well as make it easier for students to work their way through instead of becoming debt slaves. Those who really want it would work their way through and those that don't belong wouldn't go. There's ways to make money without a degree. This is one area I think Europe does a better job in—with their apprenticeship system.

It wasn't always like this in higher education. It was more affordable and a ticket into the middle-class for many. Excessive govt meddling wrecked it.

I think online learning over the long term will replace much of the brick and mortar campuses anyway.
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:25 AM   #165
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Schooling trains automatons which is fine for some but let's stop pretending that college is where all worthwhile thinking happens and those who choose a different path are inherently inferior.
Sour grapes?
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