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Old 05-08-2012, 05:14 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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July 1st: Federal student loan rate doubles.

The Senate attempted to vote today to prevent that from happening. They were going to keep their vote revenue-neutral by closing a particular tax loophole used by the very wealthy.

It was blocked, by Republicans.

I didn't see a thread up about this. I just figured we needed to know about it.

Our students are doing exactly what Republicans and conservatives want them to -- they are proactively doing what they can to make life better for themselves by getting an education.

We're potentially rewarding them for their efforts by doubling what they will have to pay back, in order to protect a loophole for millionaires.

The Republican Party, theoretically for pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. Theoretically for simplifying the tax code. Is violating both principles, it seems, with their actions today.

We've got a couple months. Maybe things change soon.
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Old 05-09-2012, 06:53 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shitgoose View Post
Its got nothing to do with me chief, I went to college and got out of it what I needed without unrealistic expectations.

My point is that the student loan system is being abused and monies are being spent on anything and everything. I'm sick of people who borrowed for college complaining about paying it back. When I took out student loans it was the bare minimum needed to get my education and paid back promptly.

In the case of my BIL's ex she will never payback the loans. Never. Like many, she has unrealistic expectations about what a college education is and how much a four year degree is really worth these days.
Please tell me how she will never pay it back. They will garnish wages, take tax refunds as well as other collection methods. I don't see how she won't pay it back.
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Old 05-11-2012, 08:42 AM   #122
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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I haven't read but the first few initial responses to this thread, so I apologize if these points have already been brought up before.

But in order to abandon your principles and still claiming to be ideologically consistent, you need to have some other principle that overrides them.

The principles of tax code simplification and working to make yourself better for the job market (i.e. a college education, in this instance). Both theoretically values conservatives on this forum hold dear.

And yet -- we're opposing this now? Why? What value trumps these?

The value of making education necessarily harder? Of having fewer people go to college? On making college for the overwhelming number of people who can manage to make it even harder?

On what planet does it make sense that our country will be better served by having a less educated population?
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Old 05-11-2012, 08:53 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I haven't read but the first few initial responses to this thread, so I apologize if these points have already been brought up before.

But in order to abandon your principles and still claiming to be ideologically consistent, you need to have some other principle that overrides them.

The principles of tax code simplification and working to make yourself better for the job market (i.e. a college education, in this instance). Both theoretically values conservatives on this forum hold dear.

And yet -- we're opposing this now? Why? What value trumps these?

The value of making education necessarily harder? Of having fewer people go to college? On making college for the overwhelming number of people who can manage to make it even harder?

On what planet does it make sense that our country will be better served by having a less educated population?
How about the principle that the government shouldn't be subsidizing these loans in the first place?
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Old 05-11-2012, 08:54 AM   #124
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
How about the principle that the government shouldn't be subsidizing these loans in the first place?
It's cheaper if it does.

Easily paid for by closing a loophole for the super wealthy, who don't need that loophole to be super wealthy.

And it makes going to school easier for intelligent youth who don't have the means to do it on their own.

Who's being guided by reality here, Pat? And who's being guided by ideology?
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Old 05-11-2012, 08:59 AM   #125
qabbaan qabbaan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
It's cheaper if it does.
Government subsidies drive prices downward in the end! This is wonderful news!

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Old 05-11-2012, 09:12 AM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
It's cheaper if it does.

Easily paid for by closing a loophole for the super wealthy, who don't need that loophole to be super wealthy.

And it makes going to school easier for intelligent youth who don't have the means to do it on their own.

Who's being guided by reality here, Pat? And who's being guided by ideology?
That violates my principle against taking from one group to finance a handout to another group while at the same time having the unintended consequence of creating excessive college tuition inflation.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:13 AM   #127
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I don't see how it violate any principle of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. You can still take out the loan. The bootstrap you want to use is built on the tax dollars of someone else?
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:44 AM   #128
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I suppose there really is no need to raise money or cut spending to cover this. There doesn’t seem to be any correlation between revenue and cost on the other programs so why should congress care now?

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Old 05-11-2012, 09:51 AM   #129
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaise View Post
I don't see how it violate any principle of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. You can still take out the loan. The bootstrap you want to use is built on the tax dollars of someone else?
I want to make it cheaper and less burdensome for people to educate themselves, so more people can get better educated.

We can simplify the tax code and make this happen in a way that is of detriment to no one.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:53 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
That violates my principle against taking from one group to finance a handout to another group
Certainly you'd agree that some redistribution of wealth is either necessary or desirable.

If so, what better way to do it than to shave off an unfair advantage the super wealthy get in order to promote higher education in America?

You get a better educated populace, which you certainly must agree is a net positive, and all the benefits that brings with it, while remaining 100% revenue neutral.
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:51 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Certainly you'd agree that some redistribution of wealth is either necessary or desirable.

If so, what better way to do it than to shave off an unfair advantage the super wealthy get in order to promote higher education in America?

You get a better educated populace, which you certainly must agree is a net positive, and all the benefits that brings with it, while remaining 100% revenue neutral.
What unfair advantage are you talking about?
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:00 AM   #132
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
What unfair advantage are you talking about?
A tax loophole only the wealthy can take advantage of.

I'm not playing wikipedia for you again -- you can google this shit on your own.

If you want to disagree that it's a loophole only the wealthy take advantage of, make your case. But I'm not going to explain this shit to you like it's 101.
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:15 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
A tax loophole only the wealthy can take advantage of.

I'm not playing wikipedia for you again -- you can google this shit on your own.

If you want to disagree that it's a loophole only the wealthy take advantage of, make your case. But I'm not going to explain this shit to you like it's 101.
I don't even know where to start. You're the one calling it unfair. Surely you know what loophole you're talking about. Just lay it on me.
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:20 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I don't even know where to start. You're the one calling it unfair. Surely you know what loophole you're talking about. Just lay it on me.
The loophole allows some shareholder-employees of so-called "S corporations" to avoid paying the Medicare payroll tax on their earnings.

Gingrich-Edwards loophole
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:23 AM   #135
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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I don't even know where to start. You're the one calling it unfair. Surely you know what loophole you're talking about. Just lay it on me.
Christ.

So really, you don't even know what you're opposing here.

You have no idea if it's an actual loophole, prior to J Diddy's post above.

All you know is that if Obama/Direckshun/[insert non-Republican here] wanted it, it must be bad.

Stop being a pussy and lifetime-bet me your signature, you waffling ignoramus.
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