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Old 05-21-2012, 11:50 AM  
mlyonsd mlyonsd is online now
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Catholic organizations across the country file suit against contraception mandate

Catholic organizations across the country file suit against contraception mandate


Published May 21, 2012| FoxNews.com

Some of the most influential Catholic institutions in the country filed suit against the Obama administration Monday over the so-called contraception mandate, in one of the biggest coordinated legal challenges to the rule to date.

Claiming their "fundamental rights hang in the balance," a total of 43 plaintiffs filed a dozen separate federal lawsuits challenging the constitutionality of the requirement. Among the organizations filing were the University of Notre Dame, the Archdiocese of New York and The Catholic University of America.

The groups are objecting to the requirement from the federal health care overhaul that employers provide access to contraceptive care. The Obama administration several months ago softened its position on the mandate, but some religious organizations complained the administration did not go far enough to ensure the rule would not compel them to violate their religious beliefs.

A statement from the University of Notre Dame said the requirement would still call on religious-affiliated groups to "facilitate" coverage "for services that violate the teachings of the Catholic Church."

"The federal mandate requires Notre Dame and similar religious organizations to provide in their insurance plans abortion-inducing drugs, contraceptives and sterilization procedures, which are contrary to Catholic teaching," the statement said.

Rev. John Jenkins, the president of Notre Dame, said in a message to the campus that the filing "is about the freedom of a religious organization to live its mission, and its significance goes well beyond any debate about contraceptives."

The contraception rule does include an exemption for religious organizations -- but that exemption does not cover many religious-affiliated organizations like schools and charities. Complaints about the narrowly tailored exemption prompted a stand-off between the Obama administration and religious groups earlier this year. As a compromise, the administration said insurers -- and not the religious-affiliated organizations themselves -- could be required to offer contraceptive coverage directly.

But many organizations were not satisfied with the plan. John Garvey, president of Catholic University, said in a statement Monday that "such a revision would not solve our moral dilemma." He argued that the cost of contraceptive coverage would still be "rolled into the cost" of a university insurance policy.

"In the end the university, its employees and its students will be forced to pay for the prescriptions and services we find objectionable," he said.

University of Notre Dame Law Prof. Richard Garnett said in a statement that the mandate could affect a range of religious institutions, including "schools, health care providers and social welfare agencies."

On a separate track, officials at a Florida Catholic university decided Monday to drop student health care coverage, becoming the second school this month to make that call. The decision at Ave Maria University was based in part on objections to the contraception rule, but also on projected increased premium costs tied to new rules in the federal health care overhaul.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...ption-mandate/
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Old 06-23-2012, 07:13 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Literature View Post
Some of them aren't true or false issues. At one point, Hitchens mentions the Crusades. Well, yes, the Crusades and the Catholic Church are inextricably intermixed. But what about the Crusades can history condemn as an embarrassing chapter for the Church? Do you actually know anything about the Crusades? Most people have no idea what they were other than in the broadest sense (a Christian-centric and led war).

Paradoxically, Hitchens then mentions the Church's inaction during Hitler's Final Solution (this is also a common criticism that has a warped reality of the Church's role in the modern era). Hitchens apparently would have liked a mass organization by the Church to fight the Nazis -- a role that the state, for obvious reasons, carries out today. Hitchens would prefer that the Church gather a modern day Church led crusade against the Nazis (we all would have liked that, but for reasons having to do with reality, it couldn't happen). There's no problem with that, except when you condemn in previous clause the church that once had the power of the state for going on a crusade against what society determined was evil.
This is exactly what I expected from you. The argument, that you cannot be mad about the crusades, and also be mad they did not have one against the Nazis, is a feeble attempt at best. Pope John Paul II felt the need to ask forgiveness for the crusades, you do not, I will rest my case on that subject.

No one expected the church to start a crusade against the Nazis. It is silly to use that as a defense. What is damning, is church not only assisting Hitler in gaining power, but aiding war criminals in escaping prosecution. Not a single German guilty of war crimes faced excommunication. The complete and total silence of the church regarding the extermination of Jews is shameful.

Here is one of countless websites that look into the churches role, leading up to, during, and after WW2:
http://CatholicArrogance.Org/Catholic/RC_scandal-2.html

You can take up your debate with someone else Jensen, I am bored with your games. If you think you can make a case for the actions of your church, from the beginning to now, you must understand all of your work is ahead of you~
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Last edited by RNR; 06-23-2012 at 07:31 AM..
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:09 AM   #137
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I don't know nearly as much about Catholicism as Literature does, but my understanding is that grievous crimes are typically not a reason to excommunicate a person. The Church is supposed to be about saving wayward souls. Christian churches of most denominations invite convicted killers to redeem themselves by accepting Christ as their savior and repenting.
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:51 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I don't know nearly as much about Catholicism as Literature does, but my understanding is that grievous crimes are typically not a reason to excommunicate a person. The Church is supposed to be about saving wayward souls. Christian churches of most denominations invite convicted killers to redeem themselves by accepting Christ as their savior and repenting.
Strange the church did excommunicate one Nazi officer, for marrying a Protestant. That is much more frowned upon than war crimes clearly~
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Old 06-23-2012, 09:54 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
Strange the church did excommunicate one Nazi officer, for marrying a Protestant. That is much more frowned upon than war crimes clearly~
and....boom goes the dynamite
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Old 06-23-2012, 10:18 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
Strange the church did excommunicate one Nazi officer, for marrying a Protestant. That is much more frowned upon than war crimes clearly~
Even if that's true, and it's hard for me to take anything you say about religion without a credible link seriously, it supports my contention that the commission of a crime is not typically the basis for an excommunication.
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Old 06-23-2012, 10:34 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Even if that's true, and it's hard for me to take anything you say about religion without a credible link seriously, it supports my contention that the commission of a crime is not typically the basis for an excommunication.
It is hard for me to take anything you say serious on the subject, because it is clear you know little or nothing about it. Have you even read the books you defend? I provided a link to this subject in my reply to Jensen. The information is out there. You have a case of the ass because I spoke out on the nonsense that Romney follows. I have studied it, and have an informed opinion on that church also. You blindly give a pass because it has Jesus lipsticked in its title~
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:06 AM   #142
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RNR, ever hear of the ghettos the Catholics put the Jews in, in the vatican city....? locked them up every night.

not only did the "church" not excommunicate Nazis, 70 to 90 percent of the SS never even saw a charge leveled against them.
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:16 AM   #143
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The Catholic Church has made mistakes and has blemishes on its history. So does the United States.
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Old 06-23-2012, 11:23 AM   #144
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The Catholic Church has made mistakes and has blemishes on its history. So does the United States.
true.

they aren't done...pretty confident they will spearhead a ecumenical movement in the near future.
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Old 06-23-2012, 12:03 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
It is hard for me to take anything you say serious on the subject, because it is clear you know little or nothing about it. Have you even read the books you defend? I provided a link to this subject in my reply to Jensen. The information is out there. You have a case of the ass because I spoke out on the nonsense that Romney follows. I have studied it, and have an informed opinion on that church also. You blindly give a pass because it has Jesus lipsticked in its title~
catholicarrogance.org? I won't fully believe it until I see it on the pages of burnthepope.net.
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:08 PM   #146
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catholicarrogance.org? I won't fully believe it until I see it on the pages of burnthepope.net.
whatever pat, this information is very easy to attain, from countless places. Frankly I do not give a shit what you believe. You have not taken the time to research the subject. You want someone to hold your hand and guide you. If you are interested, do your homework~
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:13 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
whatever pat, this information is very easy to attain, from countless places. Frankly I do not give a shit what you believe. You have not taken the time to research the subject. You want someone to hold your hand and guide you. If you are interested, do your homework~
I haven't seen any evidence that your research goes beyond fringe websites, so color me unimpressed.
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:22 PM   #148
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I haven't seen any evidence that your research goes beyond fringe websites, so color me unimpressed.
You misspelled uniformed~
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:57 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
You misspelled uniformed~
I honestly don't know why you think you've owned anyone in these religion arguments you keep having. I'm perplexed.
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Old 06-23-2012, 03:01 PM   #150
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Excommunication can result from an offense, but I think we have a misunderstanding here of what excommunication is.

People who have been excommunicated are still considered to be Catholic. They are considered a member in bad standing, as it were. They cannot receive the Eucharist or participate in liturgy or receive other sacraments. It's supposed to be a severe censure designed to bring them to repentance. They are not put put out of the church and in no wise is it permanent (though the roman church used to teach so in centuries past).

For the most part it was reserved in the past for people teaching aberrant doctrine, though it was sometimes used on political opponents

I think recently the most common cause is related to a member of the clergy sanctioning an abortion. there was such a situation in California recently where a nun sanctioned it and was excommunicated but later brought back into communion after repenting.
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