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Old 05-21-2012, 11:50 AM  
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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Catholic organizations across the country file suit against contraception mandate

Catholic organizations across the country file suit against contraception mandate


Published May 21, 2012| FoxNews.com

Some of the most influential Catholic institutions in the country filed suit against the Obama administration Monday over the so-called contraception mandate, in one of the biggest coordinated legal challenges to the rule to date.

Claiming their "fundamental rights hang in the balance," a total of 43 plaintiffs filed a dozen separate federal lawsuits challenging the constitutionality of the requirement. Among the organizations filing were the University of Notre Dame, the Archdiocese of New York and The Catholic University of America.

The groups are objecting to the requirement from the federal health care overhaul that employers provide access to contraceptive care. The Obama administration several months ago softened its position on the mandate, but some religious organizations complained the administration did not go far enough to ensure the rule would not compel them to violate their religious beliefs.

A statement from the University of Notre Dame said the requirement would still call on religious-affiliated groups to "facilitate" coverage "for services that violate the teachings of the Catholic Church."

"The federal mandate requires Notre Dame and similar religious organizations to provide in their insurance plans abortion-inducing drugs, contraceptives and sterilization procedures, which are contrary to Catholic teaching," the statement said.

Rev. John Jenkins, the president of Notre Dame, said in a message to the campus that the filing "is about the freedom of a religious organization to live its mission, and its significance goes well beyond any debate about contraceptives."

The contraception rule does include an exemption for religious organizations -- but that exemption does not cover many religious-affiliated organizations like schools and charities. Complaints about the narrowly tailored exemption prompted a stand-off between the Obama administration and religious groups earlier this year. As a compromise, the administration said insurers -- and not the religious-affiliated organizations themselves -- could be required to offer contraceptive coverage directly.

But many organizations were not satisfied with the plan. John Garvey, president of Catholic University, said in a statement Monday that "such a revision would not solve our moral dilemma." He argued that the cost of contraceptive coverage would still be "rolled into the cost" of a university insurance policy.

"In the end the university, its employees and its students will be forced to pay for the prescriptions and services we find objectionable," he said.

University of Notre Dame Law Prof. Richard Garnett said in a statement that the mandate could affect a range of religious institutions, including "schools, health care providers and social welfare agencies."

On a separate track, officials at a Florida Catholic university decided Monday to drop student health care coverage, becoming the second school this month to make that call. The decision at Ave Maria University was based in part on objections to the contraception rule, but also on projected increased premium costs tied to new rules in the federal health care overhaul.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...ption-mandate/
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:28 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Literature View Post
Whatever you think you know would be great to read.
As will your defense of the actions~
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:28 PM   #32
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What about that? Do you realize that it's not relevant to whether a person can defend the Church without defending their actions towards the child molestation crisis? This is called a red herring. I used it as an example to demonstrate my point about taking a nuanced view of historical events (one should be able to do this in historical study). You're using it as a distraction: to showcase what, exactly? Something other than the issue I'm talking about.
I'm stating that the actions of the priests was known by high levels of the Catholic church's leadership and the abuse was not only not punished (or reported as a crime), but the abusers were transferred around, tacitly letting the abuse continue.

Do you disagree with any of that?
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:31 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I'm stating that the actions of the priests was known by high levels of the Catholic church's leadership and the abuse was not only not punished (or reported as a crime), but the abusers were transferred around, tacitly letting the abuse continue.

Do you disagree with any of that?
I don't. Do you think it's necessary to disagree with that in order to defend the Catholic Church on other grounds?
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:35 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Literature View Post
I don't.
Good. And are you able and willing to separate the deplorable actions of the high level leadership of the Catholic church from the church itself?

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Originally Posted by Literature View Post
Do you think it's necessary to disagree with that in order to defend the Catholic Church on other grounds?
I think it's walking a very, very fine line, as I said. Some people would find it so revolting that this behavior was tacitly condoned by high levels of the church that the entire church is suspect.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:35 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
As will your defense of the actions~
What is with this "defense of the actions?" This implies that you are going to throw out some random fact (say, Galileo was sentenced to house-arrest), and my only possible defense of the Church is by defending the sentence. You're setting this up in a way that is at best, shortsighted, and at worst, dishonest.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:37 PM   #36
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Good. And are you able and willing to separate the deplorable actions of the high level leadership of the Catholic church from the church itself?
In many ways, yes. Are you not able to?
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:42 PM   #37
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In many ways, yes. Are you not able to?
I'm not a Catholic, so I don't have much motivation to do so to begin with.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:46 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post

I think it's walking a very, very fine line, as I said. Some people would find it so revolting that this behavior was tacitly condoned by high levels of the church that the entire church is suspect.
Well, that's their problem, not mine.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:48 PM   #39
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I'm not a Catholic, so I don't have much motivation to do so to begin with.
You don't have to be Catholic in order to answer that question.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:48 PM   #40
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Are you suggesting I don't find it revolting?
No. I'm suggesting that you don't find it revolting enough to make you criticize the church as a whole, the leaders of which you've acknowledged swept this under the rug, didn't have the abusers turned over the legal authorities and transferred them around so that they could continue the abuse.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:50 PM   #41
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You don't have to be Catholic in order to answer that question.
No, I don't. To me, the leadership of the church IS the church (or any other organization).
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:56 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
No. I'm suggesting that you don't find it revolting enough to make you criticize the church as a whole, the leaders of which you've acknowledged swept this under the rug, didn't have the abusers turned over the legal authorities and transferred them around so that they could continue the abuse.
The leaders did not transfer them around, so that they could continue the abuse. That's either a poorly constructed sentence, or a lie.

I don't find the cover-up revolting enough to make me criticize the church as a whole (for example, I couldn't possibly criticize Pope John Paul II's encyclical Fides et Ratio because of his inadequate measure with the sexual abuse problem). I couldn't possibly criticize several priests I know, or several nuns, who are part of the churches hierarchy. I couldn't possibly criticize my family members who are Catholic, and part of the church as a whole, for the sexual abuse, either.

No, the Catholic Church is much more than the sexual abuse crisis. Her critics wish to make her nothing more than it. You might be of that persuasion, but I think it's stupid and silly and lacking any historical depth or nuanced analysis.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:03 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Literature View Post
The leaders did not transfer them around, so that they could continue the abuse. That's either a poorly constructed sentence, or a lie.
Meh. Like I said, the abusers were transferred around, tacitly letting the abuse continue. To which you agreed. So, through their actions, they allowed the abuse to continue.

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Originally Posted by Literature View Post
I don't find the cover-up revolting enough to make me criticize the church as a whole (for example, I couldn't possibly criticize Pope John Paul II's encyclical Fides et Ratio because of his inadequate measure with the sexual abuse problem). I couldn't possibly criticize several priests I know, or several nuns, who are part of the churches hierarchy. I couldn't possibly criticize my family members who are Catholic, and part of the church as a whole, for the sexual abuse, either.
Okay. That seems to be giving the leadership of the church a rather significant pass, but I understand your motivation.

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Originally Posted by Literature View Post
No, the Catholic Church is much more than the sexual abuse crisis. Her critics wish to make her nothing more than it. You might be of that persuasion, but I think it's stupid and silly and lacking any historical depth or nuanced analysis.
I said nothing of the kind. It's obviously much more than just a kiddie rapist organization.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:05 PM   #44
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Okay. That seems to be giving the leadership of the church a rather significant pass, but I understand your motivation.
If you say so; you'll understand then if I take the liberty in presuming to understand yours.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:08 PM   #45
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If you say so; you'll understand then if I take the liberty in presuming to understand yours.
Jensen's sole motivation is spouting the 1st drivel diarrhea that comes to mind then defending that position till the death, even if it means giving a pass to people who swept massive child molestation under the rug for decades.

Hey but he 'is right' though....
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