Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-29-2012, 03:27 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $23954
Private, for-profit colleges aren't providing careers; sucking gov't dry...

And wrecking students financially.

But they found a way to reliably rake in government aid money, and therefore are running a goddamn racket for their shareholders.

Christ.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/25/bu...wing.html?_r=1

Colleges for Profit Are Growing, With Federal Help
By FLOYD NORRIS
Published: May 24, 2012

There are a lot of government subsidies, and in the current fiscal atmosphere many are shrinking by necessity. What appears to be lacking is any rational way of deciding which should shrink.

The volume of federally guaranteed student loans to students at so-called proprietary colleges — the ones that intend to operate at a profit and get nearly all their revenue from the government — continues to grow.

At the same time, state and local governments across the country are slashing spending on higher education, and community colleges — the ones most likely to offer alternatives to the students recruited by the far more expensive proprietary schools — are suffering some of the largest reductions.

That trend has been welcome news to the proprietary colleges. “The competitive landscape” is getting better, Kevin M. Modany, the chief executive of ITT Educational Services, one of the larger for-profit colleges, told analysts this year.

“When you look at what’s going on right now from a community college perspective,” he said, “we’re seeing a lot of state budgets being constrained. We’re seeing dollars being pulled from their budgets and they’re really capped in terms of their enrollment opportunities.”

ITT Educational, on the other hand, opened four new campuses in the first three months of this year, raising its total to 148 locations in 48 states. It expects to open at least four more later this year. It has 71,000 students enrolled.

In Washington, the Obama administration has been trying to write rules that would stop loans going to students at the most exploitative of the schools, ones whose students are most likely to default on the loans and least likely to get jobs if they graduate. The Department of Education is expected to announce within a few weeks which programs at which schools are failing, but that determination will have little immediate impact. The earliest that any school will lose financing is 2014.

ITT Educational Services, which runs ITT Technical Institute, used to be part of the international phone company known as ITT, but it was spun off years ago. It issues associate’s and bachelor’s degrees, and even some master’s degrees. Its shares trade on the New York Stock Exchange and it advertises heavily.

I got interested in ITT Tech after I watched one of its commercials, full of promise of bright career opportunities for students who sign up. At the end of the commercial, the following words flashed on the screen, in small type and for only a few seconds:

“Credits earned are unlikely to transfer.”

If you enroll in a public community college and get a two-year associate degree, you can almost certainly transfer to a four-year college and complete your bachelor’s degree in two more years. If you drop out, as many do, you can return to the same or another college years later and complete a degree. But it appears that ITT Tech students are stuck. ITT Tech will award degrees to students who complete enough classes, but any student who wants to transfer will probably have to start over.

How many students who enroll at ITT Tech go on to get a degree?

That sounds like a simple question, but it is not one that ITT Educational wants to answer.

The company does disclose a lot of numbers. But many of those numbers are not very useful. From the Web site, I learned that half the students who earn associate’s degrees in business administration do so within the normal period, while the other half take longer. For that two-year diploma, I learned that they pay an average of $48,000 in tuition and fees. Similar numbers are available for the myriad other programs ITT Tech offers. But there are no hints as to how many students actually get degrees, or how many drop out. The company would not provide any overall figures.

It did, however, point me to a government Web site that lets you check graduation rates campus by campus. Some of ITT Tech’s campuses had no information available, but the headquarters location in Indianapolis said that 16 percent of students who entered the school in 2004 earned degrees within three years of enrolling in associate degree programs or six years of enrolling in bachelor’s degree programs. In the fall of 2010, the Indianapolis campus had 7,619 undergraduate students. By the end of that school year, it had awarded 538 associate’s and 336 bachelor’s degrees. Last year, ITT Educational had revenue of $1.5 billion, of which 89 percent came directly from the government through grants and loans. Some of that money came from states, but a large majority came from Uncle Sam. Students and their parents put up about 4 percent, and 7 percent came from nongovernment loans.

Raising that 7 percent has been an issue. Last year, the company was able to arrange such nongovernment guaranteed loans by promising lenders it would repay the loans if the students did not. This year it could not renew that arrangement and is having to finance the loans itself. In effect, that means it gets less than full tuition from some students, with a promise they will pay the money later.

ITT Educational has impressive profit margins. In 2009 and 2010, pretax profits exceeded what it spent on educating students. Even in this year’s first quarter, when revenue and profits were off from a year earlier, pretax profit amounted to just under 30 percent of revenue.

The decline in earnings did not slow the flow of money to shareholders. During those three months, the company spent $135 million on education costs and paid nearly $147 million to buy back shares. Those education expenses were down 2 percent from a year earlier, while spending on share buybacks rose 5 percent. Marketing costs were up 6 percent.

All those profits would dry up and vanish were government support to wither away, but so far there is little sign of that. In the 2010-11 academic year, the government guaranteed nearly $24 billion in loans to students at proprietary schools and provided almost $9 billion more in grants. All that money went to the schools.

Critics of the schools say that many students, even those who graduate, are unable to earn enough to repay the loans. Students who attend such colleges are far more likely to default on their loans than are students who attend other types of schools.

It is far from clear whether the Obama administration’s effort to cut off loans to particularly unsuccessful schools will have much impact, or even if it will happen. A trade group of proprietary schools has filed suit to halt the rule, calling it an unjustified “regulatory excess.”

That group used to be called the Career College Association, but it changed its name to the Association of Private Sector Colleges and Universities and proudly proclaims that “the market” has determined the success of its members. If so, it is a market in which the government pays nearly all the bills but leaves students with debts many cannot pay.

Whatever the case used to be for subsidizing these highly profitable companies, it ought to be a lot less compelling now when the country is slashing subsidies for other types of schools — ones that generally do a better job for their students but that spend far less on lobbyists.
Posts: 46,882
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 03:27 AM   #2
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $23954
__________________
Posts: 46,882
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 05:05 AM   #3
mikey23545 mikey23545 is offline
MVP
 
mikey23545's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Casino cash: $10757
As I talked about in another thread, about 25 years ago I worked for a proprietary college. I was in charge of the Guaranteed Student Loan program and we were pressured constantly to get students in the door, help them fill out the paperwork they needed to complete to apply for federal student loans, and get their signatures on the checks as soon as they arrived. They would have me do PA announcements asking students to come in and sign their checks, and then I would go into the classrooms and look for any students who had not responded to the announcements.

It didn't take me long to realize that almost none of these students we were signing up had a chance in hell of ever completing their degrees, or paying back the thousands of dollars they were borrowing at our behest.

I began to voice some doubts about the school's priorities to the financial aid director, and brought up the idea of spending more time talking to the students who came in to sign their lives away about what they were actually getting them selves into, even though those topics were supposedly covered by our recruiters when they were signing students up for school. I immediately became a marked man. The witch in charge of recruiting and the financial aid director both began to follow me around watching me for any signs that I was "discouraging" students from signing their student loan checks which were immediately deposited by the school. The pressure and moral disgust was such that I only lasted about a year at the school even though it was easily the highest paying job I had up to that point in my life.

I can't speak for ITT colleges, but I think in general one should be very wary of proprietary schools.
Posts: 12,249
mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 07:09 AM   #4
J Diddy J Diddy is offline
One Groovy Cat
 
J Diddy's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The Pitt State baby
Casino cash: $15014
I remember when I decided to go back to school. I first checked into Vatterot about a computer related field. What I found that the associates degree cost more than attending a community college and that if I decided to try and get a bachelors I would have to start over. I nixed that pretty quick and went the CC route. After some hard work and some good grades transfer scholarships became available and I chose to transfer to Pitt State where I picked up even more scholarships along the way. It is affordable and while I am getting financial aid, I use that money for the express purpose of paying off debts incurred from my marriage. A big chunk of which will be taken care of during the fall semester. After I get there I will take out the bare minimum in loans. With the Pell grant the schooling itself is paid for so all I need is the cash to provide for my son and I. I can easily accomplish that after all the other debts (save the loans to date) are paid off by working part time.
Posts: 30,728
J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 08:27 AM   #5
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
We Ready
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Casino cash: $17047
These schools are a joke. I view them as the payday loans of the educational world. That said, their students probably aren't exactly the best and the brightest in the first place, so that might account for part of the chasm here.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Colon is 0.7 WAR or 5M in value. He makes 500k. Getting pretty close, and since he's producing war each of the next 4 years of club control, he's fair value for Upton straight up. More than fair actually.
Posts: 32,300
Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 08:44 AM   #6
Chiefshrink Chiefshrink is offline
MVP
 
Chiefshrink's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: donkey land
Casino cash: $9129
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey23545 View Post
As I talked about in another thread, about 25 years ago I worked for a proprietary college. I was in charge of the Guaranteed Student Loan program and we were pressured constantly to get students in the door, help them fill out the paperwork they needed to complete to apply for federal student loans, and get their signatures on the checks as soon as they arrived. They would have me do PA announcements asking students to come in and sign their checks, and then I would go into the classrooms and look for any students who had not responded to the announcements.

It didn't take me long to realize that almost none of these students we were signing up had a chance in hell of ever completing their degrees, or paying back the thousands of dollars they were borrowing at our behest.

I began to voice some doubts about the school's priorities to the financial aid director, and brought up the idea of spending more time talking to the students who came in to sign their lives away about what they were actually getting them selves into, even though those topics were supposedly covered by our recruiters when they were signing students up for school. I immediately became a marked man. The witch in charge of recruiting and the financial aid director both began to follow me around watching me for any signs that I was "discouraging" students from signing their student loan checks which were immediately deposited by the school. The pressure and moral disgust was such that I only lasted about a year at the school even though it was easily the highest paying job I had up to that point in my life.

I can't speak for ITT colleges, but I think in general one should be very wary of proprietary schools.
Trade schools basically ??
Posts: 12,433
Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 09:08 AM   #7
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
We Ready
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Casino cash: $17047
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsshrink View Post
Trade schools basically ??
No, for-profit schools.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Colon is 0.7 WAR or 5M in value. He makes 500k. Getting pretty close, and since he's producing war each of the next 4 years of club control, he's fair value for Upton straight up. More than fair actually.
Posts: 32,300
Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 09:25 AM   #8
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $23954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
These schools are a joke. I view them as the payday loans of the educational world.
Amen.
__________________
Posts: 46,882
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 09:27 AM   #9
Chiefshrink Chiefshrink is offline
MVP
 
Chiefshrink's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: donkey land
Casino cash: $9129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
No, for-profit schools.
Last I checked, trade schools are for-profit.
Posts: 12,433
Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.Chiefshrink is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 09:38 AM   #10
Cave Johnson Cave Johnson is offline
Andy the Big Reid Coach
 
Cave Johnson's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: E. Bumf***istan
Casino cash: $10691
Mikey, wanna guess which candidate opposes for-profit education reform? Hint, it's the guy with a son running a PE firm investing in the industry.

Quote:
Nor did Romney tell voters about the private equity fund Solamere Capital, which is run by Mitt’s son Tagg Romney and Spencer Zwick, who also serves as the top fundraiser on the Romney campaign staff. Solamere was launched with a $10 million investment from Mitt and Ann Romney, and Mitt also has provided strategic advice. Solamere Capital offered its clients a stake in TA Associates, which owns not just Full Sail but a number of for-profit schools, including troubled Vatterott Colleges, marked by exploitative recruiting practices and high student loan defaults.
http://www.alternet.org/education/15...es?page=entire
Posts: 10,236
Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 09:47 AM   #11
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
Bless FSU!
 
BucEyedPea's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
Casino cash: $23731
The entire student loan/federal aid program is driving up higher ed costs. It's the next bubble that's going to burst. So long as these schools, and others, can get this money, they don't have to compete through prices or even quality. They can just keep jacking up the price. Student aid office in any college is a racket. I've seen how they operate where I've taught as an adjunct.
__________________
“The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the legislature.” ~ James Madison, Father of the Constitution

“We do not believe in aggressive or preventive war. Such war is the weapon of dictators, not of free democratic countries like the United States.”~ Truman, Sept 1, 1950
Posts: 59,901
BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 10:34 AM   #12
Ace Gunner Ace Gunner is offline
First Overall
 
Ace Gunner's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: kcmo
Casino cash: $5407
this is just another symptom of a centralized problem -- crooks in charge put more crooks in charge.
__________________
The Greatest
Posts: 10,400
Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.Ace Gunner is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 11:18 AM   #13
fan4ever fan4ever is offline
Veteran
 
fan4ever's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Casino cash: $8062
Iv'e been waiting for years for someone (the government?) to do something about these colleges; they are criminal IMO and they are EVERYWHERE!!!

And how do they legally get to call what they give these kids a BACHELOR'S DEGREE? How does THAT happen?
Posts: 4,299
fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 11:27 AM   #14
fan4ever fan4ever is offline
Veteran
 
fan4ever's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Casino cash: $8062
Part of the issue with these schools is their lies about placement. One of the graphic design schools here in PHX says they have like a 93% placement rate. What they don't tell these kids, who often rack up $50,000 to $60,000 in debt, is that working at Kinko's operating a copy machine qualifies as placement in the industry. Scumbags. It also has a negative effect on people established in the industry; people are offering to do logos for $25.00 because they are desperate therefore impacting the earning opportunity for qualified designers/artists.
Posts: 4,299
fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.fan4ever Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 11:27 AM   #15
Cave Johnson Cave Johnson is offline
Andy the Big Reid Coach
 
Cave Johnson's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: E. Bumf***istan
Casino cash: $10691
Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4ever View Post
Iv'e been waiting for years for someone (the government?) to do something about these colleges; they are criminal IMO and they are EVERYWHERE!!!

And how do they legally get to call what they give these kids a BACHELOR'S DEGREE? How does THAT happen?
Because they're not held to any sort of performance standards. The current administration is phasing in a gainful employment rule for these "educators". Romney wants to repeal the regulation.

But, according to R crazy town banana pants logic, Obama is the irresponsible politician.
Posts: 10,236
Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.Cave Johnson is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:07 AM.


This is a test for a client's site.
A new website that shows member-created construction site listings that need fill or have excess fill. Dirt Monkey @ https://DirtMonkey.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.