Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-21-2012, 08:50 AM  
qabbaan qabbaan is offline
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Casino cash: $24150
Fast and Furious scandal is turning into President Obama's Watergate

Fast and Furious scandal is turning into President Obama's Watergate

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ti...mas-watergate/

Obama is repeating many of the mistakes that led to Nixon's resignation in 1974

Quote:
Fast and furious hasn’t been discussed a lot in the mainstream media,
which is why the facts can seem so preposterous when you read them for
the first time. But the story is slowly unraveling and the public is
catching up with the madness. On Wednesday, the The House Oversight
and Government Reform Committee voted to hold Attorney General Eric
Holder in contempt over his decision to withhold documents related to
the "gun walking" operation - documents that President Obama tried to
keep secret by invoking executive privilege. The question of why the
Prez intervened in this way will surely hang over the investigation
and the White House for many months to come.

Be patient, conservatives. It took nearly eight months for the
Watergate break in to become a national news story. But when it
finally did, it toppled a President.

Here’s what Fast and Furious is all about - and for the uninitiated,
be prepared for a shock. In 2009, the US government instructed Arizona
gun sellers illegally to sell arms to suspected criminals. Agents
working for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
(ATF) were then ordered not to stop the sales but to allow the arms to
"walk" across the border into the arms of Mexican drug-traffickers.
According to the Oversight Committee’s report, "The purpose was to
wait and watch, in hope that law enforcement could identify other
members of a trafficking network and build a large, complex conspiracy
case…. [The ATF] initially began using the new gun-walking tactics in
one of its investigations to further the Department’s strategy. The
case was soon renamed ‘Operation Fast and Furious."

Tracing the arms became difficult, until they starting appearing at
bloody crime scenes. Many Mexicans have died from being shot by ATF
sanctioned guns, but the scandal only became public after a US federal
agent, Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, was killed by one of them in a
fire fight. ATF whistle blowers started to come forward and the
Department of Justice was implicated. It’s estimated that the US
government effectively supplied 1,608 weapons to criminals, at a total
value of over $1 million. Aside from putting American citizens in
danger, the AFT also supplied what now amounts to a civil war within
Mexico.

It’s important to note that the Bush administration oversaw something
similar to Fast and Furious. Called Operation Wide Receiver, it used
the common tactic of "controlled delivery," whereby agents would allow
an illegal transaction to take place, closely follow the movements of
the arms, and then descend on the culprits. But Fast and Furious is
different because it was "uncontrolled delivery," whereby the
criminals were essentially allowed to drop off the map. Perhaps more
importantly, Wide Receiver was conducted with the cooperation of the
Mexican government. Fast and Furious was not.

So Obama’s operation is subtly different. But just as concerning is
the heavy handed way that the administration has handled criticism.
Obama says that the Oversight Committee has been hi-jacked by
Republicans who would rather talk about politics than creating jobs
(because Obama is o-so very good at generating those). But there has
been Democratic criticism too, and the Prez’s determined defence of
Holder will only encourage conspiracy thinking that the scandal has
hidden depths. Executive privilege is usually associated with
protecting information that passes through the Oval Office. What did
the documents reveal about Obama’s association with the operation?

Again, it’s important to contextualise. Executive privilege has been
invoked 24 times since Ronald Reagan, and attempts to over-ride it
rarely reach the courts. Moreover, Holder’s request for executive
privilege made no reference to White House involvement in Fast and
Furious, which seems to have been run exclusively by the ATF.
Nevertheless, by refusing to sack Holder or push him to come clean,
Obama may have made a very Nixonian mistake.

A lot of conservatives are writing at the moment that not only is
Obama turning into Nixon Mark II, but Obama is much worse because no
one actually got killed during Watergate. The comparison is based on
the myth that Nixon ordered the Watergate break in and that’s what he
eventually had to resign over. But that’s not true. Nixon’s guilt was
in trying to pervert the course of justice by persuading the FBI to
drop its investigation of the crime. Mistake number one, then, was to
involve the White House in covering up the errors of a separate,
autonomous political department. Mistake number two was that when
Congress discovered that evidence about the scandal might be recorded
on the White House bugging system, Nixon invoked executive privilege
to protect the tapes. In both cases, it was the cover up that
destroyed Tricky Dick - not the original crime.

And, forty years later almost to the day, here we have Obama making
the same mistake.
Perhaps it’s an act of chivalry to stand by
Holder; perhaps it’s an admission of guilt. Either way, it sinks the
Oval Office ever further into the swamp that is Fast and Furious. Make
no mistake about: Fast and Furious was perhaps the most shameful
domestic law and order operation since the Waco siege. It’s big
government at its worst: big, incompetent and capable of ruining
lives.
Posts: 2,973
qabbaan would the whole thing.qabbaan would the whole thing.qabbaan would the whole thing.qabbaan would the whole thing.qabbaan would the whole thing.qabbaan would the whole thing.qabbaan would the whole thing.qabbaan would the whole thing.qabbaan would the whole thing.qabbaan would the whole thing.qabbaan would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 11:53 AM   #46
Saul Good Saul Good is online now
MVP
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Casino cash: $183925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatguy View Post
The same people in this thread bitching about Zimmerman being condemed by the media and others before knowing the facts...are doing the same shit now with the POTUS.
The people defending Zimmerman said to wait for the details to come out. Obama is actively working to make sure that the details remain secret. In both cases, the same people are asking for more information. It vindicated us on Zimmerman.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
Saul 2014
Posts: 30,539
Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 11:54 AM   #47
headsnap headsnap is offline
Da!
 
headsnap's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Space Station #5
Casino cash: $10067126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatguy View Post
The same people in this thread bitching about Zimmerman being condemed by the media and others before knowing the facts...are doing the same shit now with the POTUS.
Knowing facts?!?! The Executive that claimed to not be involved claimed EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE!!!!
Posts: 15,849
headsnap would the whole thing.headsnap would the whole thing.headsnap would the whole thing.headsnap would the whole thing.headsnap would the whole thing.headsnap would the whole thing.headsnap would the whole thing.headsnap would the whole thing.headsnap would the whole thing.headsnap would the whole thing.headsnap would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 11:56 AM   #48
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is online now
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $117653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
That's your defense? "It's okay that I sold guns to murderers because they were already murdering people before I sold them the guns."

I guess we should sell weapons to Kony, too. After all, he's already killing kids.
Yeah, that's really what I'm saying. You're acting like guns were introduced where there were none before.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
As long as Jesus Christ was the president of the US and approved of it Yes.
Posts: 15,216
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 11:58 AM   #49
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
Country Santa Year Around
 
HonestChieffan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the Country in MO
Casino cash: $1256057
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Yeah, that's really what I'm saying. You're acting like guns were introduced where there were none before.

Mexicans would have been killed anyway. Plus there are plenty more where they came from. Right?
__________________
Frazod to KC Nitwit..."Hey, I saw a picture of some dumpy bitch with a horrible ****tarded giant back tattoo and couldn't help but think of you." Simple, Pure, Perfect. 7/31/2013

Dave Lane: "I have donated more money to people in my life as an atheist that most churches ever will."

Come home to Jesus Dave. Come home.
Posts: 26,856
HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 11:59 AM   #50
Saul Good Saul Good is online now
MVP
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Casino cash: $183925
Posters: It sure looks like Obama may have known more about this than he claimed.

Cosmo: You have no evidence that there was any wrongdoing here.

Posters: Obama won't let us see the evidence.

Cosmo: That's because it's a secret.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
Saul 2014
Posts: 30,539
Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 11:59 AM   #51
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is online now
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $117653
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Grand_Illusion View Post
It's really a shame you are trying to nuance these deaths by this botched operation.

Not a nuance, and I said the death was tragic. But you're acting like guns were introduced and then all hell broke loose. It was a botched operation, like you said.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
As long as Jesus Christ was the president of the US and approved of it Yes.
Posts: 15,216
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 12:00 PM   #52
Iz Zat Chew Iz Zat Chew is offline
Guess I'm not who I think I am
 

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Casino cash: $5806
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Yeah, that's really what I'm saying. You're acting like guns were introduced where there were none before.
So you are saying that providing more guns is a good thing because they were already killing with guns in the first place?

SO, if there were already guns there why did the president feel they should provide more?
Posts: 1,164
Iz Zat Chew must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Iz Zat Chew must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Iz Zat Chew must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Iz Zat Chew must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Iz Zat Chew must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Iz Zat Chew must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Iz Zat Chew must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Iz Zat Chew must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Iz Zat Chew must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Iz Zat Chew must have mowed badgirl's lawn.Iz Zat Chew must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 12:01 PM   #53
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is online now
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $117653
Quote:
Originally Posted by headsnap View Post
Knowing facts?!?! The Executive that claimed to not be involved claimed EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE!!!!
For the--I don't know--6th time maybe: It is very reasonable that the requested documents contain information that if public, could compromise current and planned undercover / crime-fighting / security matters.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
As long as Jesus Christ was the president of the US and approved of it Yes.
Posts: 15,216
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 12:01 PM   #54
Saul Good Saul Good is online now
MVP
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Casino cash: $183925
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Yeah, that's really what I'm saying. You're acting like guns were introduced where there were none before.
That's exactly what you said, you ****ing inbred. Yes, they already had some guns. They were using them to mount an enormous drug war near our southern border. AND WE SOLD THEM MORE GUNS. The fact that they were in the process of murdering people when we sold them the guns makes it WORSE, not better, WORSE.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
Saul 2014
Posts: 30,539
Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 12:03 PM   #55
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is online now
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $117653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
Posters: It sure looks like Obama may have known more about this than he claimed.

Cosmo: You have no evidence that there was any wrongdoing here.

Posters: Obama won't let us see the evidence.

Cosmo: That's because it's a secret.
Take it up with your congressman to pass a constitutional amendment that congress can demand and review any and all documents from the executive branch at will.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
As long as Jesus Christ was the president of the US and approved of it Yes.
Posts: 15,216
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 12:04 PM   #56
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
Supporter
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Spink, SD
Casino cash: $49230
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
For the--I don't know--6th time maybe: It is very reasonable that the requested documents contain information that if public, could compromise current and planned undercover / crime-fighting / security matters.
If there was any good info the WH would already have leaked it by now.
Posts: 24,445
mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.mlyonsd is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 12:07 PM   #57
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is online now
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $117653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
That's exactly what you said, you ****ing inbred. Yes, they already had some guns. They were using them to mount an enormous drug war near our southern border. AND WE SOLD THEM MORE GUNS. The fact that they were in the process of murdering people when we sold them the guns makes it WORSE, not better, WORSE.
I'm not debating how well the operation ran, although it is a common tactic to put the goods in the hands of the criminal to track where it goes. All I'm saying is that there is no proof whatsoever that Obama had anything to do with it or did anything wrong.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
As long as Jesus Christ was the president of the US and approved of it Yes.
Posts: 15,216
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 12:10 PM   #58
LiveSteam LiveSteam is offline
All aboard the crazy train
 
LiveSteam's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: homeof43conferencetitles
Casino cash: $71618
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
For the--I don't know--6th time maybe: It is very reasonable that the requested documents contain information that if public, could compromise current and planned undercover / crime-fighting / security matters.
Obama leaks high security info. Like you leak on your panties once a month
Posts: 16,003
LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.LiveSteam is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 12:11 PM   #59
Saul Good Saul Good is online now
MVP
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Casino cash: $183925
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I'm not debating how well the operation ran, although it is a common tactic to put the goods in the hands of the criminal to track where it goes. All I'm saying is that there is no proof whatsoever that Obama had anything to do with it or did anything wrong.
It's one thing to put drugs in the hands of someone. It's another thing to put machine guns in the hands of violent cartels. WTF is the US government doing running sting operations in ****ing Mexico for in the first place?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
Saul 2014
Posts: 30,539
Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.Saul Good is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 12:11 PM   #60
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
Country Santa Year Around
 
HonestChieffan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the Country in MO
Casino cash: $1256057
Cosmo makes a good point. The only way Obama would have been able to like pass out some cool new guns would be if the zetas were into golf. There is no link from the zetas to golf, just horse racing.
__________________
Frazod to KC Nitwit..."Hey, I saw a picture of some dumpy bitch with a horrible ****tarded giant back tattoo and couldn't help but think of you." Simple, Pure, Perfect. 7/31/2013

Dave Lane: "I have donated more money to people in my life as an atheist that most churches ever will."

Come home to Jesus Dave. Come home.
Posts: 26,856
HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.HonestChieffan is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.