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Old 07-20-2012, 02:42 AM  
mdchiefsfan mdchiefsfan is offline
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The Dark Knight Rises *Spoilers* Thread

For anyone who has seen the movie and wants to discuss it.
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:53 PM   #196
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There's an entire scene where Blake explains how he knows Bruce is Batman.
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:54 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Wallcrawler View Post
This whole movie left a bad taste in my mouth. Its clearly not aimed toward people who know the characters very well . . .
Of course it isn't. This is Nolan's version of Batman, and Bale's. It's not a direct translation of the comic books.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:02 PM   #198
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There's an entire scene where Blake explains how he knows Bruce is Batman.
Magic Orphan-dar.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:04 PM   #199
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This whole movie left a bad taste in my mouth. Its clearly not aimed toward people who know the characters very well unless we're addressing the stupid twist that exploited people's knowledge of the books in order to get the twist over. Nice douche....nice.

To trash the origin of Bane so thoroughly, and for the sake of a ridiculous twist to reveal Talia Al Ghul in an equally horrific trashing of book version is just ridiculous to me. You take Bane, arguably the most vicious and cerebral enemy Batman has ever known and try to turn him into a sympathetic character at the end? Just your regular run of the mill pit prisoner who got a frosty smooth beatdown for protecting a child? Lame.

Why the hell does hothead cop know who Batman is? Its never explained, its just dropped in our lap. You. Youre Batman. Why did you wear the mask? So dumb. Then later to actually make his birth name "Robin" was just too much.

Talia's turn and entire role in the plot was asinine. She's in love with Bruce in the books, saved his life on more than one occaision and even had his kid. So why she was chosen to lead the "Nuke Gotham City" plan, I have no idea. Her character being in this film made about as much as Gwen Stacy in Spider-Man 3. Something about the third movie in a trilogy that brings out the WTF moments I guess.

The Bane fights were way too Rocky 3 for me. First fight is a no contest beatdown, we get a nod to the breaking, but not the actual breaking of the Bat. Then you dangle from a rope for a few months and boom. Spine realigned, a few crunches, pushups, and chinups later, we're ready to go back and for some reason now youre able to just take Bane to the cleaners. Oh, and how Bane didnt become pink mist when shot by the Batpod when we saw it take down an entire wall of crushed cars is quite beyond my comprehension.

The ending bugs me as well. Its like Nolan either didnt know what he wanted to do with it, or he wanted to just leave it open for interpretation, or try to please both the unhappy ending seekers as well as happy ending seekers, you just cant try to apply any logic to it or it all falls apart.

We assume that Batman is killed flying the bomb out over the bay. He says there's no auto pilot. We see Batman give that long stare into the camera and then boom. Okay, Bats is toast but he saved Gotham. Kind of a bummer, but we'll roll with it. Funeral, Alfred sobbing, Wayne's will being executed, the works. If it just stopped here, with "Robin" finding the cave it wouldve been fine.

But wait!

A dejected Fox talks to the techs to see what he couldve done to help with the Auto Pilot. Tech says that it was patched six months earlier by Bruce Wayne. Cut to Alfred in Florence and he sees Bruce and Selina.

So, is Alfred imagining Bruce and Selina? It is much better for Nolan's sake if he is. It insults our intelligence far less. But the majority say no no, Bruce fixed the auto pilot, he got out. And he didnt say anything to Alfred because it was just like in Alfred's fantasy where they would say nothing to each other but they would both know that he'd made it.

Well, then this brings to mind a quote from one of my favorite books, Misery, by Stephen King.


quote Annie Wilkes

They also called them serials. I'm not stupid ya know... Anyway, my favourite was Rocketman, and once it was a no brakes chapter. The bad guy stuck him in a car on a mountain road and knocked him out and welded the door shut and tore out the brakes and started him to his death, and he woke up and tried to steer and tried to get out but the car went off a cliff before he could escape! And it crashed and burned and I was so upset and excited, and the next week, you better believe I was first in line. And they always start with the end of the last week. And there was Rocketman, trying to get out, and here comes the cliff, and just before the car went off the cliff, he jumped free! And all the kids cheered! But I didn't cheer. I stood right up and started shouting. This isn't what happened last week! Have you all got amnesia? They just cheated us! This isn't fair! HE DID'NT GET OUT OF THE *bleep* - A - DOODIE CAR!



So what if Bruce fixed the auto pilot? He never got out. We watch the Bat fly right out over the ice (if you fall in, youre dead in minutes) and explode. And even if we, the viewers didnt see it, are we meant to believe that if Bruce got out of that thing before it blew, that NOBODY watching it fly out there saw anything? Weak.


You also mean to tell me that after that little bitch Selina Kyle trapped Bruce with Bane for him to get utterly destroyed that the actual Batman of comic lore would give two shits about her from then on is completely ridiculous. Theres no way he would take that shit, let alone run off to Florence with her. Its insulting.

The entire idea that Bruce just up and says "Peace, Im out" at all is just ludicrous. Its the main reason the death, while more of a downer is far more believable.

Ive got so many issues with this film I cant even list them all for fear of carpel tunnel. Pretty disappointed with it in general.


TDK>Begins>Rises
Your criticism that the film does things differently than the comics is ill-founded. But your qualms with the plot holes and cheap methods used are spot-on.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:05 PM   #200
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Magic Orphan-dar.
I didn't say you had to like the reasoning. I just said there was a scene where he explains it. I'm not an orphan though. I would guess that scene probably would've had more of an impact with someone who was, but I don't know.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:09 PM   #201
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I didn't say you had to like the reasoning. I just said there was a scene where he explains it. I'm not an orphan though. I would guess that scene probably would've had more of an impact with someone who was, but I don't know.
It's one of a great many Deus ex Machnia that Nolan uses in the film, but I don't really have a problem with it. I'm chalking it up to the kind of insight about people that will help make Robin Blake a good Batman.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:11 PM   #202
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Of course it isn't. This is Nolan's version of Batman, and Bale's. It's not a direct translation of the comic books.
Then why use Talia? Why not just imagine up a new character like they did with the Rachel Dawes character?

You dont just use mainstay characters and disregard the source material and expect a great response from people familiar with it. Talia wasnt born in that pit, and she certainly wouldnt have tried to murder Bruce and destroy Gotham.

What is his next act? Lois Lane jams a hunk of kryptonite up 's ass and attempts to kill him in his upcoming film? It would make about as much sense.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:16 PM   #203
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Of course it isn't. This is Nolan's version of Batman, and Bale's. It's not a direct translation of the comic books.
This..
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:32 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Wallcrawler View Post
Then why use Talia? Why not just imagine up a new character like they did with the Rachel Dawes character?

You dont just use mainstay characters and disregard the source material and expect a great response from people familiar with it. Talia wasnt born in that pit, and she certainly wouldnt have tried to murder Bruce and destroy Gotham.

What is his next act? Lois Lane jams a hunk of kryptonite up 's ass and attempts to kill him in his upcoming film? It would make about as much sense.
Lois Lane is a major character in the world. Talia is not a major character in the Batman world unless you're a comics nerd. People know Batman, Robin, the Joker, the Penguin, and Catwoman. And even those characters have been tinkered with (hell, in the first Burton film he made Joker the killer of Batman's parents). This is not a literal translation; it's the third chapter in the Nolan/Bane world. He simply needed a twist in his film, and she served that purpose.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:34 PM   #205
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He simply needed a twist in his film, and she served that purpose.
No he didn't. It's his most significant flaw as a filmmaker that he feels the need to add Twists! to every film.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:40 PM   #206
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No he didn't. It's his most significant flaw as a filmmaker that he feels the need to add Twists! to every film.
I didn't mean WE thought he needed a twist. HE wanted a twist. It is, after all, his film. And for almost everyone (i.e. people who don't know who Talia is in the comics), it was an effective twist. Why did he do it? Why did he change Bane's origin and character specifics? Why did he have some cop named John Blake be named Robin? Who knows. It's his film, his version of the Batman story, and his conclusion to it. No one is ever going to make the perfect movie that makes everyone happy. Find any movie on Rotten Tomatoes and even if it has 99% rating there's someone who thought it sucked. Most people liked "Avengers", some loved it, and some hated it. I think most people will like "TDKR", some will love it, and some will hate it. Que sera sera.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:58 PM   #207
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Question since I didn't really watch Batman Begins...why is Liam Neeson credited as Henri Ducard and another guy is as al Ghul? I thought Neeson was al Ghul in both.

Sorry to ask a dumb question.
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:01 PM   #208
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Heh, it appears the biggest critics of this film and all the Nolan Batman films are the true hardcore comic book nerds.

A lot of guys have a hard time accepting changes or a Different interpretation of something they love. Understandable I guess......
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:08 PM   #209
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No he didn't. It's his most significant flaw as a filmmaker that he feels the need to add Twists! to every film.
That's the beauty of it to me though, that's what makes him a great filmmaker. It's hard to surprise people. That's why you go to his movies, to be surprised, awed, and taken away by film. I certainly wouldn't want every filmmaker to do that, obviously. But he does it well. And he's great at keeping his foot on your throat. Instead of one major conflict/resolution he just beats you down and adds problem after problem to overcome, and then when you think the hero has made it over the hump, he'll push it farther.
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:10 PM   #210
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Question since I didn't really watch Batman Begins...why is Liam Neeson credited as Henri Ducard and another guy is as al Ghul? I thought Neeson was al Ghul in both.

Sorry to ask a dumb question.
no one answer this. Watch batman begins, its worth it.
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