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Old 07-20-2012, 09:50 AM  
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Gun Control

We have all heard about what happened in Aurora, Co, and I think that Gun Control is going to be a huge topic in the following months.


What measures need to be taken? Do you have any ideas that will help prevent this kind of thing from happening again as it pertains to guns?
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Old 07-20-2012, 11:33 PM   #196
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If some people had a conceal and carry in that theatre, they may have been able to save lives, who knows.
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Old 07-21-2012, 12:01 AM   #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notorious View Post
We have all heard about what happened in Aurora, Co, and I think that Gun Control is going to be a huge topic in the following months.


What measures need to be taken? Do you have any ideas that will help prevent this kind of thing from happening again as it pertains to guns?
Does anyone know yet if this guy was legal to carry firearms? Because there's a big ****ing difference in the argument one way or the other.
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Old 07-21-2012, 01:26 AM   #198
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Does anyone know yet if this guy was legal to carry firearms? Because there's a big ****ing difference in the argument one way or the other.
He bought them legally if that is what you mean. I guess what he bought though would have banned had a gun ban not expired in 2004.
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Old 07-21-2012, 02:58 AM   #199
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He bought them legally if that is what you mean. I guess what he bought though would have banned had a gun ban not expired in 2004.
Tough call then. IMO this is one of those things that gets so much attention it's tough to keep up. Colorado is having a tough year so far, hope it gets better.

I'd be lying if I said I have the solution but I definitely don't want to see this turned into a "take their guns", which I don't think it will, but I think the greater good stands on letting people carry guns who are allowed to carry them until proven otherwise.

You can only control so much and sometimes people are going to go off the radar with or without guns. Take 747s, truck bombs, pipe bombs and suicide bombers for example.

It sucks and it's depressing, that's for damn sure.
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Old 07-21-2012, 03:04 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by Otter View Post
Tough call then. IMO this is one of those things that gets so much attention it's tough to keep up. Colorado is having a tough year so far, hope it gets better.

I'd be lying if I said I have the solution but I definitely don't want to see this turned into a "take their guns", which I don't think it will, but I think the greater good stands on letting people carry guns who are allowed to carry them until proven otherwise.

You can only control so much and sometimes people are going to go off the radar with or without guns. Take 747s, truck bombs, pipe bombs and suicide bombers for example.

It sucks and it's depressing, that's for damn sure.
Yea, I think the laws are pretty good as they are though the gun ban written into law in '94 (I think) should have stayed as is.

There is only so much you can do in situations like this.
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Old 07-21-2012, 04:34 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by Bump View Post
If some people had a conceal and carry in that theatre, they may have been able to save lives, who knows.
It could just as easily have cost more. Anyone in there, once they realized it was for real at all, would still have to retrieve their handgun and get into position while under fire. Even then, they'd be firing into smoke and darkness, with the flashing lights and noise of the action scene that was playing at the time. Within a few seconds, there is screaming and running and chaos everywhere. Visibility would be awful and target ID would be hard to establish, so now you've got two people with bullets flying. Returning fire would also prevent them from doing what several people so far have said saved their family's lives - running away.

It gets even worse if more than one theatergoer had a carry permit. In that case, there would be several people firing at unknown targets, with (since carry permits don't require any kind of tactical response training) no coordination between them. It would be very likely that they would mistakenly target each other. Since few people go to movies alone, each firer would probably have innocents they're each trying to protect. Police were also on the scene within 90 seconds, and it would be a lot harder on them to walk into a firefight.

This, in a nutshell, is the main thing that bothers me about the idea that randomly scattered armed citizens is a viable way of discouraging or ending spree killings in general.
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Old 07-21-2012, 05:53 AM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
It could just as easily have cost more. Anyone in there, once they realized it was for real at all, would still have to retrieve their handgun and get into position while under fire. Even then, they'd be firing into smoke and darkness, with the flashing lights and noise of the action scene that was playing at the time. Within a few seconds, there is screaming and running and chaos everywhere. Visibility would be awful and target ID would be hard to establish, so now you've got two people with bullets flying. Returning fire would also prevent them from doing what several people so far have said saved their family's lives - running away.

It gets even worse if more than one theatergoer had a carry permit. In that case, there would be several people firing at unknown targets, with (since carry permits don't require any kind of tactical response training) no coordination between them. It would be very likely that they would mistakenly target each other. Since few people go to movies alone, each firer would probably have innocents they're each trying to protect. Police were also on the scene within 90 seconds, and it would be a lot harder on them to walk into a firefight.

This, in a nutshell, is the main thing that bothers me about the idea that randomly scattered armed citizens is a viable way of discouraging or ending spree killings in general.
It's also a very unique situation to begin with, who would have guessed some nut job was going to walk into the batman premier in full drab with a bullet proof vest? No one could have predicted this...no one.

Put this situation in a bank, grocery store, local deli, farmers market or whatever and the guy would have stood out like a elvis impersonator wearing sparklers on his head who probably would have been shot down.

Dude, anyone who snaps can learn from the internet to make a bomb out fertilizer and diesel fuel from the internet through an anonymous proxy and walk in your children's day care as a pizza delivery guy. If it's not guns some nut job will find another way, it's the world we live in.

And you know what, you probably have a better chance of dying in a plane crash (which is pretty low odds) than it happening. It's been going on since the dawn of man and taking away guns or mandatory arming everyone isn't going to change a ****ing thing.

Look at history, it's the world we're in. Get a selection process to a new planet and I'll be the first to sign up. Until then we deal with it the best we can and stop blaming rocks for killing a caveman.
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:01 AM   #203
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Granted, this case was more chaotic that even your average spree shooting. My point is, it could go either way; neither side can say with certainty that their solution would make incidents like this either better or worse.
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:12 AM   #204
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Granted, this case was more chaotic that even your average spree shooting. My point is, it could go either way; neither side can say with certainty that their solution would make incidents like this either better or worse.
Totally agreed. It's a lot of factors. Being crammed into cities where no one knows one another or says "hello" when they pass them on the street is, in my humble opinion, the biggest problem. No one knows one another and they become objects instead of neighbors.

How much do you want to bet this guy was an isolated weirdo who woke up in the morning with no one to call and say "let's go fly fishing" or whatever blew his hair back to put a little light into his day?

People don't wake up one day wanting to shoot up a movie theater. Or at least I don't think they do. It's a bigger problem.
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:35 AM   #205
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I have seen quotes about him already giving the almost-cliche "He was a quiet man, kept to himself a lot". It's a dark corner of the human psyche, that's for sure - one I hope to never fully understand, or even encounter.
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:41 AM   #206
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I have seen quotes about him already giving the almost-cliche "He was a quiet man, kept to himself a lot". It's a dark corner of the human psyche, that's for sure - one I hope to never fully understand, or even encounter.
Being totally honest, I'm 7 hours south/west of where this happened and didn't read a think about it besides it happened so I wasn't basing anything I wrote on facts just personal observance of human nature over my last 30+ years.

A person who is loved and loves back doesn't do this kind of stuff whether they own a gun or not. People need people.

Wow, I sound like a pillowbiter.
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:43 AM   #207
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Yea, I think the laws are pretty good as they are though the gun ban written into law in '94 (I think) should have stayed as is.

There is only so much you can do in situations like this.
Yes no flash hiders,bayonet lugs,pistol grips on AK,s ect made a huge difference.

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Old 07-21-2012, 06:46 AM   #208
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It could just as easily have cost more. , each firer would probably have innocents they're each trying to protect.
I disagree.

I made the point yesterday that this guy is a coward. He wore body armor. He didn't want to die. He wanted his name etched in history. He hid outside instead of facing suicide by cop or bumping himself off.

The second someone would've returned fire, his cowardly ass would've ran for the exit.

People that want to go out in a blaze of glory don't wear body armor.

Here's a 71 year old shutting down 2 armed 19 year olds. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/18...-cafe-robbery/

Now, if this had been some retired ex-Marine, I'd probably agree that a CCW permit holder might make things worse...but I doubt it.

This guy is a splineless coward.
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:48 AM   #209
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It could just as easily have cost more. Anyone in there, once they realized it was for real at all, would still have to retrieve their handgun and get into position while under fire. Even then, they'd be firing into smoke and darkness, with the flashing lights and noise of the action scene that was playing at the time. Within a few seconds, there is screaming and running and chaos everywhere. Visibility would be awful and target ID would be hard to establish, so now you've got two people with bullets flying. Returning fire would also prevent them from doing what several people so far have said saved their family's lives - running away.

It gets even worse if more than one theatergoer had a carry permit. In that case, there would be several people firing at unknown targets, with (since carry permits don't require any kind of tactical response training) no coordination between them. It would be very likely that they would mistakenly target each other. Since few people go to movies alone, each firer would probably have innocents they're each trying to protect. Police were also on the scene within 90 seconds, and it would be a lot harder on them to walk into a firefight.

This, in a nutshell, is the main thing that bothers me about the idea that randomly scattered armed citizens is a viable way of discouraging or ending spree killings in general.
Not to mention the shooter had a bp vest on
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:49 AM   #210
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Yes no flash hiders,bayonet lugs,pistol grips on AK,s ect made a huge difference.
You missed something though.

...the actual gun that was used in these killings.

The AR-15 was banned in 1994, but restrictions were lifted 10 years later.
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