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Old 07-20-2012, 09:50 AM  
notorious notorious is offline
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Gun Control

We have all heard about what happened in Aurora, Co, and I think that Gun Control is going to be a huge topic in the following months.


What measures need to be taken? Do you have any ideas that will help prevent this kind of thing from happening again as it pertains to guns?
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:58 PM   #646
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Originally Posted by WoodDraw View Post
Some interesting points. I think it's a conversation worth having. What can we do to stop these? I'm not advocating a gun ban, but I think there are steps that could be made. Not just with gun control, but mental health too.

I understand the first response is always to say " gun control won't fix anything". But someone needs to explain to me why we experience such higher levels of violence, and gun violence in particular, than other western countries
I don't mean to pick on you, but a lot of people do this. They say "I don't want to ban guns, but something must be done"

What? What can be done? Its not enough to say "I don't have the answers, but I'm sure we can do something to cut down violence", because a lot of smart people have looked at this and come up snake eyes.

A handgun ban wont happen, period. Given that, and the enormous numbers of guns out there, crazy people wont be prevented from getting guns. We should try, but we'll fail.

The assault weapons ban is a stupid, useless fig leaf, because "assault weapons" only differ from non-assault weapons in that they have a few cool but functionally unnecessary cosmetic features that make the gun look scary. Politicians who don't actually want to do anything but want to look like they are doing something, will bray about assault weapons. Banning so-called high-capacity magazines also wont be a damned thing except annoy responsible gun owners.

Whats left? Nothing's left. Either accept it, or increase security in schools, or ban handguns, and you've already foreclosed the 3rd option.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:00 PM   #647
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Originally Posted by Fruit Ninja View Post
I wouldnt mind at least see'ing assult rifles go.
what is an assault rifle?

Why is it more effective than a non-assault rifle?
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:00 PM   #648
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Well no. But somewhere between the old county crazy house or locking the crazy aunt in the basement or as you suggest just spend more money lies a better way than what we have. We have failed unstable people by abandoning them. Is an institution better than an overpass or a cardboard box? Id say yes. We have mainstreamed unstable kids into classrooms and in doing so we overload already overloaded teachers, reduced the classroom experience for the rest of the class and not made things better for the special needs child.

If we added to the mental health budget as you suggest where would the money go and for what?
Without giving too much away I work for a mental health organization. We provide housing, apartments, treatment facilities, inpatient and outpatient care but we can't reach everyone we need because we depend primarily on DMH funding along with some federal money. MO as most states have facilities for the ones that need more extensive therapy.

The money would go in my pocket ..Seriously though more services in locations that don't have any and more workers
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:01 PM   #649
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like i said, its not our job to think about what can be done. we dont get paid 200k to 500k a year to figure this shit out.

If its a total ban on guns, so be it. if its not and ntohing is done so be it, but they do need to talk about it more maybe someone has an idea out there. Who knows.

If someone paid me 300k a year, id think about it day noon and night. lol
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:03 PM   #650
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
That is impossible.

A gun ban is impossible. Perhaps we could have armed guards at schools and malls.
I'm not in favor of a gun ban. I'm a believer in gun rights.

We need to improve our mental health care delivery and tracking. There needs to be an obligation for mental health professionals to report certain disorders to some sort of no sell list. Obviously, only government officials and mental health pros should have access to it and it should be challengeable.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:03 PM   #651
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Originally Posted by WoodDraw View Post
But someone needs to explain to me why we experience such higher levels of violence, and gun violence in particular, than other western countries
What other countries? Let's explore this for a bit, better yet, whose set of statistics are you basing those claims from? Do you consider suicides gun violence?
How about criminals using firearms they obtained illegally, would creating more restrictions truly effect those from happening, after all there are already lots of things illegal that are still done regardless of their legality.

I wonder if our media and culture didn't try to idolize the "thug" lifestyle of drugs and "gang-banging" if that might help.
Maybe if we taught children firearm education in schools, if they wouldn't be so enthralled into committing violence with them.
I don't have all the answers but I do know that bullshit legislation enacted on emotion that tramples the rights of the citizens is not the way to go about this.

Should we restrict the freedom of speech, since we have a society that is more prone to vulgarity?
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:03 PM   #652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruit Ninja View Post
If its a total ban on guns, so be it.
not an option.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:04 PM   #653
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
what is an assault rifle?

Why is it more effective than a non-assault rifle?
IM sure you have shot one or 2 or 3 in your life time, but they got a massive magazine clip and you can go ****ing bananas and bust out ALOT of rounds in very little time.

Plus shooting one makes you feel like you have the biggest balls on the planet. Its mighty fun holding one and unleashing the power they bring.

This is what i know for 100 percent fact. Alot of kids died today and that is unacceptable.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:04 PM   #654
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
not an option.
Its always an option, its just one people dont like. Like i said, i dont care one way or another, i dont own a gun. I gave mines all away. I quit the "life" i used to live out in the street and for me, its not an option to own one anymore.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:08 PM   #655
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
At one time we had institutions to deal with the unstable. Now we mainstream them. Perhaps we need to revisit the decision that has put those people living under overpasses or expecting them to live normally with families that do not know how to deal with those issues.
Yea, unfortunately the resources for dealing with the people who need these services are not sufficient. It's not a cause that people rally behind. So it gets cut easily. Texas, for example, IIRC only has 1 state run adult institution.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:11 PM   #656
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Originally Posted by Fruit Ninja View Post
I quit the "life" i used to live out in the street and for me, its not an option to own one anymore.
So because you are unable to control yourself, everyone else must be too.
And your use of assault rifles is ****ing ignorant as well. Assault rifles are already illegal, they have been since 1934, while there are some exceptions to that law (registered before 1968), as of this day only 1 has ever been used in a crime and it was by a ****ing police officer.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:12 PM   #657
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Originally Posted by Fruit Ninja View Post
IM sure you have shot one or 2 or 3 in your life time, but they got a massive magazine clip and you can go ****ing bananas and bust out ALOT of rounds in very little time.

Plus shooting one makes you feel like you have the biggest balls on the planet. Its mighty fun holding one and unleashing the power they bring.

This is what i know for 100 percent fact. Alot of kids died today and that is unacceptable.
Massive? Clip?

They were shot with pistols.

Reading is fun
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:13 PM   #658
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Originally Posted by Fruit Ninja View Post
IM sure you have shot one or 2 or 3 in your life time, but they got a massive magazine clip and you can go ****ing bananas and bust out ALOT of rounds in very little time.

Plus shooting one makes you feel like you have the biggest balls on the planet. Its mighty fun holding one and unleashing the power they bring.

This is what i know for 100 percent fact. Alot of kids died today and that is unacceptable.
So one of the issues with any assualt weapons ban is that all murders by rifles(including those that would not be considered AWs) comprise less than 3% of all gun deaths. If you were to ban all rifles at most you would have a 3% reduction in the murder rate...BUT...that assumes people wouldn't just use handguns. The cost is that you turn tens of millions of people into potential felons by outlawing the single most popular firearm sold these days(the AR-15 platform)

The problem is with prohibiting standard capacity magazines that are over 10 rounds is that in most gun crimes only a few shots are ever fired I believe the FBI statistics were < 6(but I am recalling that from memory). Even then if you restrict it to 10 rounds a magazine change is quick, i.e. fractions of a second. It's not clear that that will make a material difference in crime. Honest larger capacity magazines are convenient at the range because you can load them quickly and spend more time shooting and less time loading(especially if they are loaded before the range).

If you want to propose a solution then they need to actually find one that will actually do something rather than just look like we're doing something. When you take away something without actually solving a problem, it's incredibly frustrating. The problem here is that most of the issues are deeper society ones and/or mental illness that aren't easy to solve. It's much easier to make a paper gun ban and 'look' like you're doing something than actually make a difference.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:15 PM   #659
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Yea, unfortunately the resources for dealing with the people who need these services are not sufficient. It's not a cause that people rally behind. So it gets cut easily. Texas, for example, IIRC only has 1 state run adult institution.
Grant political correctness its due. These were decisions driven by a soft hearted desire to be inclusive and all warm and fuzzy. No way will the politics allow for more institutions and rubber rooms.
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Old 12-14-2012, 08:18 PM   #660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Grant political correctness its due. These were decisions driven by a soft hearted desire to be inclusive and all warm and fuzzy. No way will the politics allow for more institutions and rubber rooms.
Locking these people up isn't the solution. Some of them need that but not all. Our mental health services are deficient in all areas.
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