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Old 07-20-2012, 09:50 AM  
notorious notorious is offline
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Gun Control

We have all heard about what happened in Aurora, Co, and I think that Gun Control is going to be a huge topic in the following months.


What measures need to be taken? Do you have any ideas that will help prevent this kind of thing from happening again as it pertains to guns?
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:32 PM   #706
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But what is an "illegal" firearm? I have an old lever action .22 rifle of my dad's that I have no papers or identification for. Would that get me a 10 year sentence?
I would say an illegal firearm is one that you have in your possession that is not registered to you.

Probably not that would be grandfathered in.

And I am only speaking in general terms it would probably have to be more specific to handguns and certain kinds of rifles etc.

Won't ever happen though
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:14 PM   #707
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
yeah, thats the problem with the "gun show loophole" argument. Either we believe in private commerce regarding guns, or we don't. Is it possible for a gun to ever be given as a gift? You buy a gun, pass the background check, then wrap it up and put it under the christmas tree? Kinda hard to call you a criminal.

If someone wants to say yes, private sales without a check are forbidden, too bad if you want to give a gun as a present, you cant, if we really want to go that far fine, but be honest. Don't act like gun shows are some special nefarious evil filled with loopholes, we're talking about private citizens at a swap meet, except instead of gems or a cutlery set, we're talking about guns. If you want to forbid anyone from selling or giving or handing down grandfather's gun to anyone without a background check, then say so, don't just yell about gun shows.
Yes, I do believe that. Why should we treat guns like commodities to be traded around? Regulate the buying, selling, and storage of guns. And yes, ban those guns that serve no logical civilian purpose. Hunting and self defense - fine. You don't need a lot of the guns out there for that.

You offer nothing but false choices. "The last assault ban was weak, therefor all assault weapons bans must be weak. Therefor do nothing."

I support your right to own a gun, just like I support your right to drive a car. I also believe that some people should lose that right if they're not responsible. Sure, some people will lose their license and drive anyway, but does that mean we shouldn't try? Why do we regulate the driving of cars more than the owning of guns?
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:24 PM   #708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodDraw View Post
You offer nothing but false choices. "The last assault ban was weak, therefor all assault weapons bans must be weak. Therefor do nothing."
What is an assault weapon in your mind?

If its a full-auto machine gun then you are not doing a damned thing. All you are doing is seizing toys owned only by the rich, few regular folk have them, there are very few legal full-auto weapons around now.

If you aren't talking about full-auto weapons, then you need to be specific. Just waving your hands and saying "OK, I'm not talking about full auto weapons, and yeah the AWB was dumb, but something in between" is simply not good enough.

There is no in-between. virtually ALL of the features in the AWB are useless, and bans on high-capacity magazines are dumb. Either the gun can fire as fast as you can pull the trigger, or it cant. Either it can fire powerful .45 rounds, or it cant.

If you want to ban either of those, you will face fierce opposition. If you don't, then you are really not doing a damned thing.

This is NOT a false choice. There really is no meaningful middle ground here.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:29 PM   #709
A Salt Weapon A Salt Weapon is offline
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Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD View Post
Now I would support major mandatory sentences for firearms used in violent crimes. That's a different sorry than possession issues.
I have no problem with this as long as the person actually used the firearm in the crime.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:29 PM   #710
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Originally Posted by WoodDraw View Post
Yes, I do believe that. Why should we treat guns like commodities to be traded around? Regulate the buying, selling, and storage of guns. And yes, ban those guns that serve no logical civilian purpose. Hunting and self defense - fine. You don't need a lot of the guns out there for that.

You offer nothing but false choices. "The last assault ban was weak, therefor all assault weapons bans must be weak. Therefor do nothing."

I support your right to own a gun, just like I support your right to drive a car. I also believe that some people should lose that right if they're not responsible. Sure, some people will lose their license and drive anyway, but does that mean we shouldn't try? Why do we regulate the driving of cars more than the owning of guns?
I dunno my firearms currently are MUCH more regulated than my driving. But let me ask you this. I have zero interest in hunting and almost zero interest in self defense. My personal preference is the other shooting sports. One of the more popular lately is what they call 3-gun shooting. Speed and accuracy are all very important to clear a course in the best time. Would my shooting sport be considered a non-valid reason to own firearms?

It's really fun. But all of those 'evil' firearms that have 'military' features are useful here. It matters how fast you can shoot, etc. It's a timed competition afterall. Because that's not hunting is it less sporting?
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:30 PM   #711
A Salt Weapon A Salt Weapon is offline
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Actually isn't there already a law that tacks on 10yrs or something if a firearm is used during a crime? Maybe that is only certain states though.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:34 PM   #712
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
What is an assault weapon in your mind?

[...]

There is no in-between. virtually ALL of the features in the AWB are useless, and bans on high-capacity magazines are dumb. Either the gun can fire as fast as you can pull the trigger, or it cant. Either it can fire powerful .45 rounds, or it cant.
This is a fair point. Personally, I'd tend towards the more aggressive side in getting rid or strictly controlling them, but I'd be open for ideas. I'd view that as a more long term evolution in gun control though, and not a reasonable short term goal. Right now, they're just too ingrained in culture and politics.

I'd mostly advocate for better background checks, regulation of buying/selling, mandatory registration by the owner and transfer registration when sold, and better identification standards so guns and bullets can be easily traced.

I'm not saying that'll stop gun crime, but I think it's a logical step in the right direction. It respects everyone's rights while putting in some common sense steps.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:37 PM   #713
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Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD View Post
I dunno my firearms currently are MUCH more regulated than my driving. But let me ask you this. I have zero interest in hunting and almost zero interest in self defense. My personal preference is the other shooting sports. One of the more popular lately is what they call 3-gun shooting. Speed and accuracy are all very important to clear a course in the best time. Would my shooting sport be considered a non-valid reason to own firearms?

It's really fun. But all of those 'evil' firearms that have 'military' features are useful here. It matters how fast you can shoot, etc. It's a timed competition afterall. Because that's not hunting is it less sporting?
Nope, that's a fair point too. Again, I'm willing to admit there is a lot of grey area in here. I still think there are areas of reform that could please everyone.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:40 PM   #714
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great vid on the myth of "assault rifles" and how they function.


Last edited by pr_capone; 12-14-2012 at 10:47 PM..
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:52 PM   #715
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Another example.





Both of these guns are a Ruger Mini 14 (I own the top one). They both have the exact same action, fire at the same rate, fire the same round, and feed from the same magazine.

Mine would be considered to be an assault weapon based on the 1994 definition... based on cosmetics alone. They are the EXACT same rifle.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:03 PM   #716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A Salt Weapon View Post
Actually isn't there already a law that tacks on 10yrs or something if a firearm is used during a crime? Maybe that is only certain states though.
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i dont think that law really ****ing matters when someone takes out 20 kids. An extra 10 years on top of the life sentence is nothing.
Plus alot of the times its murder suicide and again the 10 years to that mean jack shit.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:05 PM   #717
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i dont think that law really ****ing matters when someone takes out 20 kids. An extra 10 years on top of the life sentence is nothing.
Plus alot of the times its murder suicide and again the 10 years to that mean jack shit.
On the flip side, someone who robs a convenience store at gunpoint wouldn't get life yet would have 10 years tacked onto their prison time for using a gun.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:12 PM   #718
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Originally Posted by pr_capone View Post
On the flip side, someone who robs a convenience store at gunpoint wouldn't get life yet would have 10 years tacked onto their prison time for using a gun.
i guess thats good, but not for the 20 parents tonight though.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:17 PM   #719
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You know after what happened today I'm not getting into political debates about what needs to happen, however I'm saying something different needs to happen.

This shit can't continue.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:23 PM   #720
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Originally Posted by Dave View Post
What anti-gun people do not understand is banning guns will not solve the problem.

Guns will not just disappear. People who want guns will get them illegally. Just like drugs.

Also, how are you going to go about getting these guns from everyone in the country?

What do you think the repercussions would be?
zactually.the problem now is figuring out how to keep the guns out of lunatics hands
or how to identify these nuts,
but how many of us would take a mandatory psyche evaluation lightly

guns are not the problem, idiots and lunatics with guns are
how can the NRA help this?
the govt really can't do anymore than they are without violating the second amendment
so can the private sector help on this?
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