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Old 07-20-2012, 09:50 AM  
notorious notorious is offline
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Gun Control

We have all heard about what happened in Aurora, Co, and I think that Gun Control is going to be a huge topic in the following months.


What measures need to be taken? Do you have any ideas that will help prevent this kind of thing from happening again as it pertains to guns?
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:20 PM   #931
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
Great trolling! If you were trying to come off as a total **** you have done well~
The point is that if you censor "Who did it?" then How? and Why? are easily forgotten, and I think the latter is just as important as the former.
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:21 PM   #932
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Originally Posted by stevenidol View Post
The point is that if you censor "Who did it?" then How? and Why? are easily forgotten, and I think the latter is just as important as the former.
The why is never seriously discussed.
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:24 PM   #933
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Originally Posted by Reaper16 View Post
The why is never seriously discussed.
And the how is usually passed back and forth like a hot potato and then dropped. Remembering the names is what brings all of it back to the forefront.
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:32 PM   #934
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Originally Posted by stevenidol View Post
Yes, let's pretend like it never happened. Just like Germany did with Hitler.
Hitler was a huge proponent of gun control. One of your heroes, yes?
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:33 PM   #935
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Originally Posted by frazod View Post
Hitler was a huge proponent of gun control. One of your heroes, yes?
I heard the trains ran on time as well.
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:38 PM   #936
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Originally Posted by stevenidol View Post
I heard the trains ran on time as well.
Nice highway system, too. But the fact lost on ****ing retards like you is that there is one, and only one, reason national leaders push gun control - that is to disarm the populace and establish a totalitarian state. Sheep like you are their instruments.

Say BAAAAAAAA
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:41 PM   #937
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Originally Posted by frazod View Post
Nice highway system, too. But the fact lost on ****ing retards like you is that there is one, and only one, reason national leaders push gun control - that is to disarm the populace and establish a totalitarian state. Sheep like you are their instruments.

Say BAAAAAAAA
Education, not guns, is the key to fighting against the totalitarian state.

Last edited by stevenidol; 12-15-2012 at 06:52 PM..
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:44 PM   #938
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Originally Posted by stevenidol View Post
The point is that if you censor "Who did it?" then How? and Why? are easily forgotten, and I think the latter is just as important as the former.
As long as you don't want to talk silly nonsense like taking my guns we will get along nicely~
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:54 PM   #939
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
As long as you don't want to talk silly nonsense like taking my guns we will get along nicely~
"Don't take away my baby! My semi-auto, cold steel baby!"

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Old 12-15-2012, 06:56 PM   #940
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
I'm curious, question for the pro gun guys here.

What do you think should be done?
Well one of the proposed solutions is to overhaul the gun control regulation and make it a much more restrictive environment nationwide. The problem is that history has shown that for all of our control legislation, no study has been able to show a positive impact on the reduction of crime. People have kept looking and no one can find a scientifically significant result.(note the same also exist for positive benefits on crime for things like more CCWs etc).

The likely best that gun control advocates can hope for is a reintroduction of an AW ban and an increase in restrictions nationwide to around the level that already exists today in Connecticut. That's the problem, CT is already the 4th most restrictive state in terms of gun control and NONE of that prevented the tragedy yesterday. Given that history has yet to show a statistical difference for gun control and all of the systems already in place in CT failed to prevent the existing tragedy, what evidence is there that more will make it better?

What it sounds like in these shootings is that the US is seeing the signs of a mental health crisis. Since the gun control solutions have failed to work, maybe we should spend the time and effort to address that problem and see what we can do to affect those afflicted with mental illness.

There is no guarantee that overhauling our mental health system will prevent all of these tragedy's but we're likely to have a positive impact on many lives beyond just those that would have committed mass murder.

So which solution do you prefer, a solution that has been shown not to work and causes negative impact on your fellow citizens for sure. Or a solution that might address the underlying problem, but even in the worst case is likely to have a positive impact on the thousands to millions of people living with mental heath issues in the US.

To me it seems the choice is a no brainer. This tragedy isn't a call to address gun control, it's a call to address a failing mental health system.
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:07 PM   #941
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Originally Posted by KChiefer View Post
"Don't take away my baby! My semi-auto, cold steel baby!"

An entire kindergarten class says hi from 6 feet under.
We should ban crack also those of us who have had guns and grew up with guns that have never broken the law with one should surrender our guns over this? Great logic
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:15 PM   #942
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
We should ban crack also those of us who have had guns and grew up with guns that have never broken the law with one should surrender our guns over this? Great logic
Yup, nothing we can do when guns are used for bad things.

I get that it'll be a cold day in hell when the US rounds up every gun in the nation.

Really, I just posted that because I love the irony in gun owners whining about losing their death machine like it's their child when those death machines are used to actually take someone's child.


PS: Wondering why no pro-gun and also anti-nationalized healthcare people aren't addressing my question a few posts back?.?.?
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:20 PM   #943
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Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day.
Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, Armed Resistance to Crime
I did some research because I thought that number smelled like BS.

Quote:
Gary Kleck conducted a survey which concluded that 2.5 million people in the US each year use guns to defend themselves. One percent of the US population is between 2 and 3 million. So if only one percent of the survey respondents had answered the survey dishonestly that would make the results of the survey inaccurate by millions. According to the NCVS (National Crime Victim Survey) guns are used defensively less than 100,000 times each year. The NCVS surveyed over 90,000 people. In contrast, Kleck only surveyed about 5,000 people. Thus it would be reasonable to conclude that the NCVS provides a more reliable estimate of the number of defensive gun uses in the US. An article published in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology (Northwestern)87 (1997): 1430 revealed that using methods similiar to Kleck's, it could be concluded that nearly 20 million Americans have seen aircraft from another planet and that one million Americans have had contact with aliens. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/press/HVFSDAFT.PR

"Since a small percentage of people may report virtually anything on a telephone survey, there are serious risks of overestimation in using such surveys to measure rare events. The problem becomes particularly severe when the issue has even a remote possibility of positive social desirability response bias. Consider the responses to a national random-digit-dial telephone survey of over 1500 adults conducted in May 1994 by ABC News and the Washington Post. [34] One question asked: 'Have you yourself ever seen anything that you believe was a spacecraft from another planet?' [Page 1438] Ten percent of respondents answered in the affirmative. These 150 individuals were then asked, 'Have you personally ever been in contact with aliens from another planet or not?' and 6% answered 'Yes.'By extrapolating to the national population, we might conclude that almost 20 million Americans have seen spacecraft from another planet, and over a million have been in personal contact with aliens from other planets. That more than a million Americans had contact with aliens would be incredible news--but not the kind actively publicized by reputable scientists." http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Hemenway1.htm

In fact, if the same survey methodology that Gary Kleck used to measure defensive gun use is used to measure criminal gun use, many more people will report that they have been a victim of a gun crime according to a report by the Harvard Injury Control Research Center: "After controlling for other aspects of the surveys, these surveys indicate that criminal gun use is far more common that self-defense gun use. For example, in May 2000, a Washington Post national random-digit dial survey asked 'Not counting military service, have you ever been threatened with a gun or shot at?' Twenty-three percent (23%) said yes. In that same month (May 2000), a Gallup national random-digit dial survey asked 'Not including military combat, have you ever used a gun to defend yourself either by firing it or threatening to fire it?' Seven percent (7%) of respondents said yes." http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research...pring_2009.pdf
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:22 PM   #944
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Originally Posted by KChiefer View Post
Yup, nothing we can do when guns are used for bad things.

I get that it'll be a cold day in hell when the US rounds up every gun in the nation.

Really, I just posted that because I love the irony in gun owners whining about losing their death machine like it's their child when those death machines are used to actually take someone's child.


PS: Wondering why no pro-gun and also anti-nationalized healthcare people aren't addressing my question a few posts back?.?.?
Count me among those who will not surrender my guns without a fight. You are among those who shameless throw up the horrible death of innocent children to strengthen you stance. That is on you not me~
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:26 PM   #945
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Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD View Post
Well one of the proposed solutions is to overhaul the gun control regulation and make it a much more restrictive environment nationwide. The problem is that history has shown that for all of our control legislation, no study has been able to show a positive impact on the reduction of crime. People have kept looking and no one can find a scientifically significant result.(note the same also exist for positive benefits on crime for things like more CCWs etc).
The 1976 Handgun ban in Washington DC prevented 47 deaths per year.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056...99112053252305

Keeping a gun in the home makes it 2.7 times more likely that someone will be a victim of homicide in your home (in almost all cases the victim is either related to or intimately acquainted with the murderer)

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056...icleDiscussion

Keeping a gun in the home makes it 4.8 times more likely that someone will commit suicide. Guns make it more likely that a suicide attempt will be successful than if other means were used such as sleeping pills.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056...99208133270705
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