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Old 07-20-2012, 09:50 AM  
notorious notorious is offline
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Gun Control

We have all heard about what happened in Aurora, Co, and I think that Gun Control is going to be a huge topic in the following months.


What measures need to be taken? Do you have any ideas that will help prevent this kind of thing from happening again as it pertains to guns?
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:30 PM   #946
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Originally Posted by stevenidol View Post
The 1976 Handgun ban in Washington DC prevented 47 deaths per year.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056...99112053252305
Yeah, but have you met those 47 people? They weren't worth it.
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:36 PM   #947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenidol View Post
The 1976 Handgun ban in Washington DC prevented 47 deaths per year.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056...99112053252305
This study done more recently(and honestly less likely biased sourced) reports that the studies as a whole are inconsistent effects.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm

Quote:
Studies of the 1976 Washington, D.C. handgun ban yielded inconsistent results (18--20).
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:37 PM   #948
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:45 PM   #949
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

I know it's asking alot, but can one of you gun control moonbats explain to me how your policies would have prevented any of these killings?
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:48 PM   #950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
Count me among those who will not surrender my guns without a fight. You are among those who shameless throw up the horrible death of innocent children to strengthen you stance. That is on you not me~
Yup, you're the one making all the sacrifice, and I'm just the coward here.

How dare I use the deaths of the innocent in an argument in the hopes of preventing their death. Is that it? Do I have it right?

What was used to kill those children has nothing to do with why they died. Much like if the psycho had used pipebombs, no one should question how easy it was for him to obtain them or how much lethal power they contain. Right?

Last edited by KChiefer; 12-15-2012 at 07:55 PM..
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:54 PM   #951
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Originally Posted by KChiefer View Post
Yup, you're the one making all the sacrifice, and I'm just the coward here.

How dare I use the deaths of the innocent in an argument in the hopes of preventing their death. Is that it? Do I have it right?
Have at it. Looks like you are gaining followers with every post. Get on out there. Say it loud. Kick some ass.
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:54 PM   #952
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Originally Posted by stevenidol View Post
Education, not guns, is the key to fighting against the totalitarian state.
Heh. I'd say you're a shining example of how our current indoctrination (you call it education) system works.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:00 PM   #953
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The only great thing today's gun manufactures have done is create shitty models that jam so they will no longer shoot. I salute them.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:01 PM   #954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenidol View Post
The 1976 Handgun ban in Washington DC prevented 47 deaths per year.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056...99112053252305

Keeping a gun in the home makes it 2.7 times more likely that someone will be a victim of homicide in your home (in almost all cases the victim is either related to or intimately acquainted with the murderer)

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056...icleDiscussion

Keeping a gun in the home makes it 4.8 times more likely that someone will commit suicide. Guns make it more likely that a suicide attempt will be successful than if other means were used such as sleeping pills.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056...99208133270705
Again these are not only ancient studies other studies have come out in later years that report opposite or statistically insignificant results. Frankly whenever you read a paper and they say these results generate a an X times improvement the first thing you should always do is look at the original number. If the probability of suicide or homicide was 1 in 500,000 and they had a 5X increase to 1 in 100,000 does that even matter? The event is still so remote that it's questionable if it's statistically significant. I write and review academic papers and the X times improvement is always a major red flag for me because it's used by less scrupulous writers to make their work look more significant than it is. If the event was already very unlikely the fact that you have an X times increase in probability may still mean it's irrelevant.

One of the challenges with finding any science is using credible sources. The problem with science is that unless you are a domain expert that has seen all of the relevant data, it's very easy for an unscrupulous or frankly even just determined author to pick and choose the data that support their hypothesis and throw out the data that is counter to what they want the result to be. Unless you know the data you may not know what is missing. This is why peer review is usually critical(provided it's unbiased), because you get a large number of domain experts to analyze the results and see if anything is 'missing' or left out. Sometimes it's an accidental or unknown oversight but not always.

Unfortunately many medical publications aren't terribly credible when it comes to issues of gun control. Many medical groups are fairly anti-gun and it's understandable, most of the times they see guns is in cleaning up the after effects of tragedies. But that places an implicit bias in them, they've seen so much harm personally they don't want to see any more. Studies funded by medical groups likely are not terribly more credible than those funded by the brady group or the NRA. If you have something you want to be true, unless you are very careful it WILL contaminate your results.

The places where those same groups can be actually MORE credible is when they publish a result that's actually counter to their expected bias. That is part of what makes the CDC report so interesting. Being from a public health organization you would expect them to have an anti-slant. For them to say, we looked scientifically at the existing major literature and we were unable to find a positive or negative benefit for any of the gun legislation(i.e. gun control or concealed carry etc), is pretty groundbreaking.

They had every incentive to selectively pick and choose studies and yet they didn't. They looked at pro and con studies and found the results to be indeterminate. The simple answer is 'We don't know' and given the years of history we should know.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:02 PM   #955
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Heh. I'd say you're a shining example of how our current indoctrination (you call it education) system works.
You can use all the name calling you want, but I know it's because you don't have an intelligent response to the topic.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:02 PM   #956
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Originally Posted by stevenidol View Post
I did some research because I thought that number smelled like BS.
Speaking of bullshit, ask yourself where the vast majority of violent crimes occur. That's right - CITIES WHERE HANDGUNS ARE EITHER BANNED OR SEVERELY RESTRICTED. Cities where nobody is armed but the criminals and the police who show up later to zip up the body bags. Of course most of these people won't have the opportunity to defend themselves with guns they aren't allowed to have or carry. Idiot. How often do thieves try to knock over a police station? Not very. Why? Everybody's got a gun there and knows how to use it. Criminals go where the guns aren't, because they don't want to get shot.

See, this is something called COMMON SENSE. I realize this is a concept you are unfamiliar with. Certainly there's no course on common sense offered in whatever dumb**** liberal college you attended.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:04 PM   #957
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Originally Posted by stevenidol View Post
You can use all the name calling you want, but I know it's because you don't have an intelligent response to the topic.
I'll call you every name in the book. You are the worst kind of ****ing fool there is. Completely indoctrinated, mindless, inert in your fear and reliance upon a government becoming more controlling and evil by the day. I shit on you and every ****ing idiot out there like you.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:06 PM   #958
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Originally Posted by KChiefer View Post
The only great thing today's gun manufactures have done is create shitty models that jam so they will no longer shoot. I salute them.
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Great stocks. Have you invested?

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Why did you buy shitty stuff?
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:08 PM   #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Smith and Wesson
Sturm Ruger

Great stocks. Have you invested?

Glock makes a good product. If you want an AR that is second to none and rarely jams look at LaRue. Revilvers dont jam if your pistol is an issue.

Why did you buy shitty stuff?
I didn't. Glad the psycho in Washington State did though.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:13 PM   #960
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
I'm curious, question for the pro gun guys here.

What do you think should be done?
Well, for starters, you need to realize that we live in huge country with a population over 300,000,000. Bad things will happen to some people. As I stated in an earlier post, there have been eight mass shootings this year, with a body count of 69. Considering the thousands of communities and millions of people living in them, that's a pretty small number. Don't let the media scare the shit out of you - don't dwell on their countless hours of looping coverage which is specifically designed to scare the shit out of you. Don't drink the Kool-aid. Think for yourself.
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