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Old 07-20-2012, 10:41 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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The Fiscal Cliff Approacheth

In an effort to make this thread sticky-worthy, I am going to update this OP to keep casual glancers informed.

This post is the official one-stop shopping of the key points/developments of the fiscal cliff negotiations.

Far as I understand, the fiscal cliff:

1. Gets rid of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy.
2. Gets rid of the Bush tax cuts for everybody else.
3. Slashes defense spending by something like $500 billion.
4. Slashes domestic programs like the NIH, Head Start, and medicine/drug care for the poor by $500 billion.

The new idea is for Democrats to allow the cliff to hit, then immediately introduce a bill that would bring 2, 4, and some of 3 back. But not 1.

Here is a chart detailing exactly what the fiscal cliff is going to do, financially:

Spoiler!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
New CBO projection: if the fiscal cliff hits, we are in another recession, and lose two million jobs.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...87L0JV20120822
The poor would be hurt by the fiscal cliff:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Overall, if the tax breaks from the 2009 stimulus are allowed to expire—the EITC and Child Tax Credit expansions, along with American Opportunity Credit for college tuition—the poorest 20 percent of Americans would see their taxes go up by $209 on average, reducing their after-tax income by 1.9 percent, according to the Tax Policy Center.
As would the middle class:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
According to estimates by the Tax Policy Center, more than half of all married couples will owe an additional tax of around $4,000 unless Congress acts. And more than a third of families with children will fall subject to the AMT, with parents of three or more children facing an extra tax of $4,700.

Among married couples with at least two children and adjusted gross income between $75,000 and $100,000, the center estimates that 84 percent will face a significantly higher tax bill this year because of the AMT.
There seems to be some consensus between the parties that substantial revenues want to be raised. Boehner and the GOP hopes that's through limiting tax deductions rather than tax raises.

Obama's opening offer, essentially:

Quote:
  • Allow the Bush tax cuts on high earners to expire. $849 billion
  • Limit itemized deductions to 28 percent, close some loopholes and deductions on high earners, eliminate tax breaks for oil and gas companies, eliminate the carried interest loophole, plus a few other items. $584 billion
  • Create a special "Buffett Rule" tax rate for millionaires. $47 billion
  • Restore the estate tax to 2009 levels. $143 billion
  • Limit corporate income shifting to low-tax countries. $148 billion
  • Other miscellaneous tax increases and reductions. About -$200 billion
  • Total: $1.6 trillion

Last edited by Direckshun; 11-14-2012 at 09:54 AM..
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:57 PM   #541
Radar Chief Radar Chief is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Demanding that your definition is the only acceptable one is.
FYI, it’s not “my” definition. It’s the “everyone that has a clue of what they’re talking about” definition, which explains why you didn’t know.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:57 PM   #542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
You're starting to sound just like that talking weasil ghost that follows me around.
Cry a little harder.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:58 PM   #543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
FYI, it’s not “my” definition. It’s the “everyone that has a clue of what they’re talking about” definition, which explains why you didn’t know.
So how is my definition incorrect, then?

Because it's not yours?
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:58 PM   #544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
Cry a little harder.
What?
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:00 PM   #545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
So how is my definition incorrect, then?

Because it's not yours?
Because you only mentioned revenue without a word on spending until it was pointed out.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:00 PM   #546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
What?
Get a hearing aid too.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:01 PM   #547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
What?
You have as much credibility as Bagdad Bob~
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:17 PM   #548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
You have as much credibility as Bagdad Bob~
It is kinda funny how I haven't posted in this topic for three days, Direckshun brings my name up out of the blue but I'm following her around.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:56 PM   #549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Demanding that your definition is the only acceptable one is.
Thon of a bitch RadarChief thtop playing tho rough!
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:52 PM   #550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
Because you only mentioned revenue without a word on spending until it was pointed out.
I'm pretty sure "government operations" is "government spending." But I figured this was just a petty exercise in demanding the language you want to see. I've done this like a half dozen times with Taco John.

So how about this, then:

A deficit is created by inadequate funding for government spending.

How adequate is that definition, in your eyes?
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:53 PM   #551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
Get a hearing aid too.
You lost me.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:54 PM   #552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
You have as much credibility as Bagdad Bob~
Less, probably. He was a pretty accomplished guy.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:55 PM   #553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
It is kinda funny how I haven't posted in this topic for three days, Direckshun brings my name up out of the blue but I'm following her around.
Ah, that's what the stalker thing was from? Recalling an exchange we had in this thread?

That's not really stalking, but okay.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:28 AM   #554
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Democrats have every popular advantage.

http://www.nationalmemo.com/polls-vo...-cliff-issues/

Polls: Voters Side With Democrats On Key Fiscal Cliff Issues
Henry Decker
December 10th, 2012 5:52 pm

A new round of polls has confirmed the conventional wisdom that President Obama and the Democrats hold significant leverage over congressional Republicans in the ongoing “fiscal cliff” negotiations.

A new Politico/George Washington University Battleground poll finds that 60 percent of respondents favor raising taxes on households earning more than $250,000, while just 38 percent oppose the Democratic plan. Furthermore, 58 percent do not believe that such a tax increase would have a negative impact on the economy, while only 38 percent believe the Republican argument.

Among independents, 59 percent support raising taxes on those earning more than $250,000, compared to 38 percent who do not — a massive 21-point split.

On the flip side, just 34 percent favor raising the retirement age for Social Security benefits, compared with 64 percent who oppose the plan; 51 percent support reducing Medicare benefits for seniors with high incomes, while 46 percent oppose it. According to this poll, Americans clearly side with the Democrats on the key issues behind the fiscal cliff negotiations.

A new Pulse Opinion Research poll for The Hill comes to a similar conclusion. According to The Hill, 53 percent of likely voters either somewhat or strongly oppose raising the age of eligibility for Medicare benefits — one of the key Republican proposals in budget negotiations.

Furthermore, the poll shows that 50 percent of voters believe that President Obama and the Democrats are being “more reasonable” in the negotiations than House Speaker John Boehner and the Republicans, compared to 38 percent who believe that Boehner and the GOP are being more reasonable. This echoes the findings of a Pew poll from last week, which showed that voters would blame Republicans by a nearly two-to-one margin if no deal is reached.

According to The Hill‘s poll, voters see that as the likely outcome; 58 percent have little or no confidence that that a deal will be reached, while 39 percent believe that we will avoid going over the cliff.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:36 AM   #555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I'm pretty sure "government operations" is "government spending." But I figured this was just a petty exercise in demanding the language you want to see. I've done this like a half dozen times with Taco John.

So how about this, then:

A deficit is created by inadequate funding for government spending.

How adequate is that definition, in your eyes?
What? Words aren't important?

By the way, a deficit isn't created by inadequate funding so much as it's created by inadequate spending.
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