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Old 08-31-2012, 07:24 PM  
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Why people laugh at Creationists

Taking a lead from Killer Clown I thought I'd create a alternative thread to post some videos I like...

[EDIT New video here]

So on with the show:

Here's the Kent Hovind Theory:



"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
Do not believe in traditions simply because they have been handed down for many generations.
But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."

Last edited by Dave Lane; 01-08-2013 at 10:56 AM..
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Old 06-17-2014, 08:38 AM   #3706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
Eh. What resources it had were undone by its geographic vulnerability; being at the crossroads of every trade route ever and consisting mostly of flat terrain means that it's always been a series of conquests and re-conquests.

Also, I should point out that, although radical atheists don't like to hear this part, religion did not crush western civilization in the Middle Ages. On the contrary, in fact; most of the education, social structure, and cultural advancement of the time was due in whole or in part to the presence of institutionalized religion.
You will get that argument from me. The early Middle Ages (dark ages) was a time of extreme fanaticism that resulting in the mass destruction of anything deemed pagan / heretical. This included most non religious books ancient temples and more.

This started in the late Roman period and helped contribute to the decline of Rome. Many of the Eastern Roman emperors went off their nuts with the fanaticism.
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Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:20 AM   #3707
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A Christian View of Science ...

"There is another form of temptation, even more fraught with danger. This is the disease of curiosity...

It is this which drives us to try to discover the secrets of nature, those secrets beyond our understanding, which can avail us nothing and which men should not wish to learn..."

- St. Augustine
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Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:31 AM   #3708
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
A Christian View of Science ...

"There is another form of temptation, even more fraught with danger. This is the disease of curiosity...

It is this which drives us to try to discover the secrets of nature, those secrets beyond our understanding, which can avail us nothing and which men should not wish to learn..."

- St. Augustine
that can't be real.
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:51 AM   #3709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla View Post
that can't be real.
It is, at the beginning of the early Middle Ages.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:13 AM   #3710
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"All the volumes that move God to wrath and that harm the soul we do not want to come to men's hearing."

– Thus declared Emperor Theodosius II (408-450) (Grant, The Fall of the Roman Empire, p162).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 06-17-2014, 12:03 PM   #3711
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“The Emperors Justin and Justinian ...

It is our intention to restore the existing laws which affect the rest of the heretics of whatever name they are, and we label as heretic whoever is not a member of the Catholic Church and of our Orthodox and Holy Faith; likewise the pagans who attempt to introduce the worship of many gods, and the Jews and the Samaritans ...

We forbid any of the above-mentioned persons to aspire to any dignity or to acquire civil or military office or to attain to any rank.”

(Codex Justinian 1i,5,12 - 527 AD)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 06-17-2014, 12:33 PM   #3712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla View Post
that can't be real.
It isn't. It was mangled together from pieces of a longer passage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Confessions, ch. 10, verse 35
I must now speak of a different kind of temptation, more dangerous than these because it is more complicated. For in addition to our bodily appetites, which make us long to gratify all our senses and our pleasures and lead to our ruin if we stay away from you by becoming their slaves, the mind is also subject to a certain propensity to use the sense of the body, not for self-indulgence of a physical kind, but for the satisfaction of its own inquisitiveness. This futile curiosity masquerades under the name of science and learning, and since it derives from our thirst for knowledge and sight is the principal sense by which knowledge is acquired, in the Scriptures it is called gratification of the eye. For although, correctly speaking, to see is the proper function of the eyes, we used the word of the other senses too, when we employ them to acquire knowledge. We do not say, ‘Hear how it glows’, ‘Smell how bright it is’, ‘Taste how it shines’ , or ‘Feel how it glitters’, because these are all things which we say that we see. Yet we not only say ‘see how it shines’ when we are speaking of something which only the eyes can perceive, but we also say ‘See how loud it is’, ‘See how it smells’, ‘See how it tastes’, and ‘See how hard it is’. So, as I said, sense-experience in general is called the lust of the eyes because, although the function of sight belongs primarily to the eyes, we apply it to the other organs of sense as well, by analogy, when they are used to discover any item of knowledge.

We can easily distinguish between the motives of pleasure and curiosity. When the senses demand pleasure, they look for objects of visual beauty, harmonious sounds, fragrant perfumes, and things that are pleasant to the taste or soft to the touch. But when their motive is curiosity, they may look for just the reverse of these things, simply to put it to the proof, not for the sake of an unpleasant experience, but from a relish for investigation and discovery. What pleasure can there be in the sight of a mangled corpse, which can only horrify? Yet people will flock to see one lying on the ground, simply for the sensation of sorrow and horror that it gives them. They are even afraid that it may bring them nightmares, as though it were something that they had been forced to look at while they were awake or something to which they had been attracted by rumors of its beauty. The same is true of the other senses, although it would be tedious to give further examples. It is to satisfy this unhealthy curiosity that freaks and prodigies are put on show in the theater, and for the same reason men are led to investigate the secrets of nature, which are irrelevant to our lives, although such knowledge is of no value to them and they wish to gain it merely for the sake of knowing. It is curiosity, too, which causes men to turn to sorcery in the effort to obtain knowledge for the same perverted purpose. And it even invades our religion, for we put God to the test when we demand signs and wonders from him, not in the hope of salvation, but simply for the love of the experience.

In this immense forest, so full of snares and dangers, I have pared away many sins and thrust them from my heart, for you have given me the grace to do this, O God, my Savior. But as long as my daily life is passed in the midst of the clamor raised by so many temptations of this sort, when can I presume to say that nothing of this kind can hold my attention or tempt me into idle speculation? It is true that the theaters no longer attract me; the study of astrology does not interest me; I have never dealt in necromancy; and I detest all sacrilegious rites.
Emphasis mine.

Augustine was talking about morbid curiosity, gawking at dead bodies just to see them, rather than to learn anything from them.

In fact, St. Augustine outright encouraged Christians to learn their science, and not to fall back on Scripture as a replacement for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Literal Meaning of Genesis
Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion. [1 Timothy 1.7]
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Old 06-17-2014, 12:47 PM   #3713
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The theocratic tyranny of Theodosius and the subsequent murder of scientists, the destruction of libraries, and eliminated and silencing of intellectuals.

"All heretics we pronounce mad and foolish ... these are to be visited first by the divine vengeance, and secondly by the stroke of our own authority, which we have received in accordance with the will of Heaven."


Thus spoke Theodosius in 380 (Norwich, p118).

A new and darker culture emerged. In 397, at the 4th Church Council of Carthage, the synod drew up a list of approved books of the Catholic canon and at the same time instituted a prohibition on anyone, including Christian bishops, from studying pagan literature. Non-Christian teachers, army officers, public employees and judges were dismissed from office. Early in the 5th century John Chrysostom (erstwhile patriarch in Constantinople) recorded with delight:

"And as for the writings of the Greeks, they are all put out and vanished"

– On John, Homily 2, Trinity, Sophists, Philosophers, 5.


He goes on to describe Pythagoras as a sorcerer and barbarian!

Within half a century, imperial edicts required the burning of non-Christian books. Many libraries of antiquity had been attached to temples, academies, and public baths and therefore suffered in the general attack by Christians on these vulgar pagan edifices. Plato's Academy, and the last of the pagan schools, were closed by Justinian in 529.

In contrast to the assault upon science and paganism, imperial patronage and wealth from the elite poured into a plethora of new churches, monasteries and nunneries – glorifying God and securing for their patrons 'a place in heaven.' Starved of funds, as well as legality, scientific research inevitably withered and died.
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Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:34 PM   #3714
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
You will get that argument from me. The early Middle Ages (dark ages) was a time of extreme fanaticism that resulting in the mass destruction of anything deemed pagan / heretical. This included most non religious books ancient temples and more.

This started in the late Roman period and helped contribute to the decline of Rome. Many of the Eastern Roman emperors went off their nuts with the fanaticism.
No, that's not accurate at all. It was mostly the mid-life crisis for the barbarian hordes; they settled down, married a nice Roman, built a house, and did a lot of farming. The church spread, but it wasn't awash with persecution; the new systems of laws (including the Corpus Juris Civilis by your boy Justinian I, and early Germanic law which allowed people to be judged by their own) were made with equality in mind. In the west, many of the farmboys didn't need book learnin', but in the east, even rural education was pretty high; either way, it was the monastic schools which did the teaching. Governments loved to imitate the (pagan, remember) Romans, with the purple cloaks and Imperial parades and calling their Germanic empire 'Holy Roman', and Charlemagne standardized writing (with Carolingian Miniscule) with which scribes preserved both Christian and pagan texts. The West also traded a lot with the Middle East, bringing over, among other things, gunpowder and algebra.

I don't know where you got the idea that the Early Middles were a 600-year orgy of destruction and un-learning and Kill All the Pagans, but generally speaking it's not true.
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:35 PM   #3715
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Old 06-17-2014, 01:39 PM   #3716
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Ah! Never mind. I just answered my own question when I Googled this paragraph:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
A new and darker culture emerged. In 397, at the 4th Church Council of Carthage, the synod drew up a list of approved books of the Catholic canon and at the same time instituted a prohibition on anyone, including Christian bishops, from studying pagan literature. Non-Christian teachers, army officers, public employees and judges were dismissed from office. Early in the 5th century John Chrysostom (erstwhile patriarch in Constantinople) recorded with delight:
Sure enough, it's from "Jesusneverexisted.com".

What you're doing is reciting propaganda, not history. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference - propagandists are often very good writers and can often become very skilled in altering reality to promote their own agenda. Plus, the fact that they, like anyone, can get a web page pretends to equate them with actual scholars. Don't be fooled, though; you're reading - and requoting, and presenting as fact - a sales pitch.
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:20 PM   #3717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
Ah! Never mind. I just answered my own question when I Googled this paragraph:



Sure enough, it's from "Jesusneverexisted.com".

What you're doing is reciting propaganda, not history. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference - propagandists are often very good writers and can often become very skilled in altering reality to promote their own agenda. Plus, the fact that they, like anyone, can get a web page pretends to equate them with actual scholars. Don't be fooled, though; you're reading - and requoting, and presenting as fact - a sales pitch.
You have any proof for your statements that the church did anything you claim it did?
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Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:47 PM   #3718
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Here Dave, you'll get a kick out of this.

Life in the Most Religious States

Quote:
I recently came across a list of the ten most religious states in America. They are, in order: Mississippi, Utah, Alabama, Louisiana, Arkansas, South Carolina, Tennessee, North Carolina, Georgia and Oklahoma.

One might assume that life in the most religious states in the nation would approximate the idealized "City upon a Hill" envisioned some four hundred years ago by John Winthrop, the Puritan colonist who served as first governor of Massachusetts Bay Colony.

To check that assumption, I did some research:

Eight of these ten states joined the Confederacy and fought a bloody Civil War to defend the institution of slavery.

Nine of these ten states still had racially segregated schools at the time of the Supreme Court's 1954 decision in Brown v. Board of Education.

Five of these ten states are still among the worst states in the nation in terms of the continuing racial segregation of their public schools.

Eight of these ten states are among the eleven states in the nation with the highest rates of incarceration.

All of these ten states still have the death penalty.

Seven of these ten states are among the ten states in the nation with the highest percentage of their citizens living under the poverty level.

Six of these ten states are among the nine worst states in the nation in rates of obesity. (guess gluttony isn't a sin)

Nine of these ten states are among the twenty states in the nation with the highest rates of smoking.

Seven of these ten states rank in the bottom ten states in the nation in the overall health of citizens.

Nine of these ten states rank in the bottom thirteen states in the nation in life expectancy.

Seven of these ten states rank in the bottom ten states in the nation in the quality of healthcare.

Five of these ten states are the only states in the nation without a minimum wage law.

All ten of these ten states rank in the bottom sixteen states in the nation in minimum wage.

Nine of these ten states ranks in the bottom eighteen states in the nation in per pupil expenditures for public education.

Nine of these ten states rank in the bottom twenty states in the nation in the quality of high school education.

Nine of these ten states are among the twenty worst states in the nation in terms of gun deaths per capita.

Five of these ten states are among the ten states in the nation whose citizens watch the most online pornography.

I'm not quite sure what to make of all this. Perhaps it just means that people who live in states with bad values are more likely to turn to religion. But "city on a hill"? Probably not what John Winthrop had in mind.

Oh, one other thing: The citizens of these ten states are fervently Republican. Eighty percent of their United States senators, for example, are members of the Republican Party, whereas only thirty-six percent of the senators from the other forty states are Republicans.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/geoffr...b_5494776.html
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Old 06-17-2014, 03:53 PM   #3719
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I found this to be of interesting reading. It seems science isn't all the sure thing Dave thinks it is....


http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=163
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Old 06-17-2014, 04:21 PM   #3720
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan View Post
I found this to be of interesting reading. It seems science isn't all the sure thing Dave thinks it is....


http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=163
No offense, but that article is not accurate in the slightest. It tries to fault the logic of science, but clearly has no clue how logic actually works. Each of the 5 points could be countered very easily should one have the time.

I'll just comment on the conclusion here:

Quote:
Science is successful when one understands its purpose, and when one understands that false theories sometimes work. Newtonian science, for example, worked for years. It has been replaced by Einstein’s theory. But even though he believed his theory to be a better approximation of the truth than Newton’s, Einstein declared that his own theory was false.

Science has its place in a Christian philosophy, an important place. But science is never to be seen as a means of learning truth. Truth is found in the Scriptures alone; the Bible has a monopoly on truth. It is God’s Word that must be believed, not the experiments of men. As Robbins has said: “Science is false, and must always be false. Scripture is true and must always be true. The issue is as clear, and as simple, as that.”

- See more at: http://www.trinityfoundation.org/jou....qpuS6LXS.dpuf
First, Newtonian science never stopped working. To say that it did is mind bottling ridiculous. And it certainly wasn't replaced by Einstein's theory. Those statements alone are so grossly inaccurate that it invalidates the author as anyone who comes close to actually understanding science. This is high school science information. Newton developed the laws of motion. Einstein developed the Theory of Relativity. The later did not replace the former. They explain different things.

Second, after incorrectly trying to fault science with failing logic, the author goes on to completely ignore the logical fallacy he's happily applying to religion. That truth can only be found in the Bible.

The author doesn't understand science or logic in the slightest. That article is tragically dumb.
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