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Old 08-31-2012, 06:24 PM  
Dave Lane Dave Lane is offline
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Why people laugh at Creationists

Taking a lead from Killer Clown I thought I'd create a alternative thread to post some videos I like...

[EDIT New video here]

So on with the show:

Here's the Kent Hovind Theory:



"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
Do not believe in traditions simply because they have been handed down for many generations.
But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."

Last edited by Dave Lane; 01-08-2013 at 09:56 AM..
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Old 10-19-2012, 11:52 PM   #631
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lol, so true

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Old 10-19-2012, 11:59 PM   #632
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Originally Posted by Bump View Post
lol, so true

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Old 10-20-2012, 12:11 AM   #633
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lol, so true

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Old 10-20-2012, 12:23 AM
stevieray
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Old 10-20-2012, 12:34 AM   #634
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
Fair enough, I'll answer your question.

No, I absolutely do not believe the Bible to be literally true.


Now, how about if you answer my second question?
cool. so where does using something you believe to be a lie to prove a lie fit into your reasoning?? in other words, you don't believe the Bible to be true, yet you give this story credibility to discredit God.

as far as your second question, in that time , and current times, at what age does a bar mitzvah happen for a Jewish boy? the young girls in your question were most likely toddlers to about 10 or 12....the men, boys and women were not Jewish, they were following pagan ways......the young girls would be brought up under Mosaic law and converted to Judaism...they were children..and not raped, as you attributed in your presumption....when Pharoah told Moses the Jews could leave, he told them ok, but to leave the children..know why? because he would raise them under Egyptian ways, and the Jews would die out and ultimately gone from history.

...you are concentrating on one part of the story regarding Balaam and Peor...do you know the other circumstances surrounding this story?

Last edited by stevieray; 10-20-2012 at 02:18 AM..
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Old 10-20-2012, 06:47 AM   #635
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
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He said he didn't believe the Bible to be literally true. He didn't say he believed it was untrue. Many people, myself included, believe it to be a metaphor.
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Old 10-20-2012, 07:10 AM   #636
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
cool. so where does using something you believe to be a lie to prove a lie fit into your reasoning?? in other words, you don't believe the Bible to be true, yet you give this story credibility to discredit God.

as far as your second question, in that time , and current times, at what age does a bar mitzvah happen for a Jewish boy? the young girls in your question were most likely toddlers to about 10 or 12....the men, boys and women were not Jewish, they were following pagan ways......the young girls would be brought up under Mosaic law and converted to Judaism...they were children..and not raped, as you attributed in your presumption....when Pharoah told Moses the Jews could leave, he told them ok, but to leave the children..know why? because he would raise them under Egyptian ways, and the Jews would die out and ultimately gone from history.

...you are concentrating on one part of the story regarding Balaam and Peor...do you know the other circumstances surrounding this story?
OK, let's stipulate that your interpretation of that is correct and the girls weren't raped. The fact remains that the Israelite soldiers were ordered to kill ALL of the men, ALL of the women, and ALL of the boys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the Standard King James Version of the Bible

Numbers Chapter 31

1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites: afterward shalt thou be gathered unto thy people.
3 And Moses spake unto the people, saying, Arm some of yourselves unto the war, and let them go against the Midianites, and avenge the LORD of Midian.
4 Of every tribe a thousand, throughout all the tribes of Israel, shall ye send to the war.
5 So there were delivered out of the thousands of Israel, a thousand of every tribe, twelve thousand armed for war.
6 And Moses sent them to the war, a thousand of every tribe, them and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war, with the holy instruments, and the trumpets to blow in his hand.
7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses and they slew all the males.
8 And they slew the kings of Midian, beside the rest of them that were slain; namely, Evi, and Rekem, and Zur, and Hur, and Reba, five kings of Midian: Balaam also the son of Beor they slew with the sword.
9 And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods.
10 And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire.
11 And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts.
12 And they brought the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and unto the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by Jordan near Jericho.
13 And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp.
14 And Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle.
15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.
17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Are you just fine with worshipping a God who orders his followers to kill all of those people because they practice a different religion? How is that different from radical Muslims who want to kill all infidels?
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Old 10-20-2012, 07:38 AM   #637
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Also, the term 'Dark Ages' is outdated and unrepresentative - they're actually called the 'Early Middle Ages' these days, because it turns out they weren't actually all that dark. For example, medieval philosophers - Boethius, Augustine, Abelard, and others - were preoccupied largely with learning and applying the theories of Plato and Aristotle to the budding Christian religion; their works were available to almost any educated person, as philosophy had not yet become as specialized as it is today. The Merovingian and Carolingian Franks also bent over backwards to present themselves in the image of Imperial Rome (thus, the "Holy Roman Empire"). The development of law steadily advanced, merging Roman with Germanic laws and establishing a feudal system. Astronomy, medicine, art and architecture advanced greatly during the time. That's a major fallacy in the premise of this part of the thread at all.

And it was, incidentally, the church who preserved the advance of education during the times. Besides the philosophy mentioned above, it was the church that continued to teach classical education and preserved the practice of writing at all during about the 4th to 8th centuries. The Islamic world made great advancements in mathematics and in other fields, and western clergymen worked with them, translating Arabic texts into Latin and vice versa. The church as a whole was a great preserver and advancement of culture, art, and science during the Early Middle Ages; the idea that it caused a Dark Age or was the major antagonist of the times is ludicrous.
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Old 10-20-2012, 05:01 PM   #638
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He said he didn't believe the Bible to be literally true. He didn't say he believed it was untrue. Many people, myself included, believe it to be a metaphor.
not unlike many Christian churches today, fashioning God to your liking isn't how it works, yet, He gives you free will....and much like a parent, He can't force you to love Him or abide by His Law.

that isn't a new or unique perspective.
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Old 10-20-2012, 05:06 PM   #639
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Are you just fine with worshipping a God who orders his followers to kill all of those people because they practice a different religion? How is that different from radical Muslims who want to kill all infidels?
you're stuck in the moment...and you didn't answer my question....

...it doesn't bother me that you don't believe, yet it bothers you that I do..honestly, why is that?

...does God tell people today to murder?....does allah tell Muslims to murder today? there's the difference...let's not pretend that cultures and races weren't wiped out during those times. muslims today want to wipe Jews off the map, just like others before them.
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Old 10-20-2012, 05:17 PM   #640
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
cool. so where does using something you believe to be a lie to prove a lie fit into your reasoning?? in other words, you don't believe the Bible to be true, yet you give this story credibility to discredit God.
I don't believe the story is literally true, but I can assume it is true for purposes of analyzing the religious and moral implications of it.

This type of reasoning isn't a new concept that should be confusing for anyone.
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Old 10-20-2012, 05:33 PM   #641
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
you're stuck in the moment...and you didn't answer my question....

...it doesn't bother me that you don't believe, yet it bothers you that I do..honestly, why is that?

...does God tell people today to murder?....does allah tell Muslims to murder today? there's the difference...let's not pretend that cultures and races weren't wiped out during those times. muslims today want to wipe Jews off the map, just like others before them.
How do you know brainiac is more bothered about your beliefs than you are his?

The implication that God ordered the killings of 10 year old boys is bothersome. If you take that to be literally true, and if you think that is morally okay, what is to stop you from thinking that God could today order the killings of 10 year old boys? If you believe that the God of that story is literally true, then presumably, the God you worship today has the same values (unless you think God's moral compass changes, which severely diminishes His omniscience).

You bring up Muslims (presumably, fundamentalist Muslims) who believe God tells them to kill innocent people. Muslims believe in the divine inspiration of Numbers and the other books of the Torah. Is there a connection there?

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Old 10-20-2012, 05:36 PM   #642
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Let's talk about abortions and the biggest abortionist of all is God (if he exists). God aborts so many more fetuses than all doctors who perform abortions combined. Miscarriages. But it's ok if he does it right? lolol
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Old 10-20-2012, 05:39 PM   #643
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Braniac, I forgot to reciprocate the kudos for the discussion... I look forward to your reply.
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Old 10-20-2012, 05:52 PM   #644
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Old 10-20-2012, 06:13 PM   #645
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Let's talk about abortions and the biggest abortionist of all is God (if he exists). God aborts so many more fetuses than all doctors who perform abortions combined. Miscarriages. But it's ok if he does it right? lolol
Abortion is intentional. How do you know God intends to abortion babies that are miscarried?
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