Why people laugh at Creationists

[Dave Lane]

Taking a lead from Killer Clown I thought I'd create a alternative thread to post some videos I like...

[EDIT New video here]

So on with the show:

Here's the Kent Hovind Theory:



"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
Do not believe in traditions simply because they have been handed down for many generations.
But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by mcan

No, I definitely meant "valuable." As in, a zygote is not any more intrinsically valuable than my hair, or fat cells. Yes, it's alive. And yes it's human. But like an appendix, it is not "valuable" until its a human being. At which point it becomes extremely precious and earns it's value.

Gotcha. And apologies, as I wasn't really trying to speak for you.

[mcan]

Originally Posted by Bowser

Gotcha. And apologies, as I wasn't really trying to speak for you.

No sweat.

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by mcan

Wait, what?

Of course those kids had developed into human beings, and of course they were valuable. I'm thinking you misunderstood what I wrote.

No, I understand perfectly.

...you want to play God and decide at which point human life has value, based on development.

[mcan]

Originally Posted by stevieray

No, I understand perfectly.

...you want to play God and decide at which point human life has value, based on development.

I see why you're saying that, but even if God does exist, the Bible never says what you are saying. God tells Jeremiah that he knew Jeremiah and made him a prophet before he was even made in the womb. Seems like God trying to tell Jeremiah that being a prophet of God was his destiny. Doesn't seem like God telling 21st century people that a zygote is a human being. Please explain to me how YOUR concept of when a human being is formed is not "playing God."

[mcan]

Originally Posted by stevieray

No, I understand perfectly.

...you want to play God and decide at which point human life has value, based on development.

And actually, I do want to correct you SLIGHTLY.

I'm not deciding at what point human life has value. I think human life ALWAYS has intrinsic value. I just don't believe that a fertilized egg, zygote or fetus is a human being, because it doesn't pass the eye test. Kinda like deciding is this art? hard to come up with a good philosophical argument to prove that something is art or not. It just has to pass the eye test.

A chair isn't a human being. A monkey isn't a human being but it's closer. A fetus isn't a human being but it's even closer than a monkey. At some point you look at it and go, "HEY WAIT A SECOND, that's a human being." And at that point, we need to stop the right to abortion and protect the baby, unless there is immediate danger to the mother.


Maybe I'm being annoying going on and on about this, and I really do want to be a respectful debater. But I think my argument is better than any I've heard for people who claim that as soon as the egg is fertilized, you got yourself a human being. Just doesn't make sense to me.

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by mcan

Please explain to me how YOUR concept of when a human being is formed is not "playing God."

Gee, it's either alive or it isn't...if it's alive..that's life...has nothing to do with playing God.

By the time a woman finds out she's pregnant...there's a heartbeat..but hey, to you, it's just a battery without an altenator.

my wife gets induced on tuesday morning..now if you'll excuse me, I think it's time for me to bow out of this conversation.

[mcan]

Originally Posted by stevieray

Gee, it's either alive or it isn't...if it's alive..that's life...has nothing to do with playing God.

By the time a woman finds out she's pregnant...there's a heartbeat..but hey, to you, it's just a battery without an altenator.

my wife gets induced on tuesday morning..now if you'll excuse me, I think it's time for me to bow out of this conversation.

Fair enough, and congratulations.

[Dave Lane]

Originally Posted by stevieray

Gee, it's either alive or it isn't...if it's alive..that's life...has nothing to do with playing God.

By the time a woman finds out she's pregnant...there's a heartbeat..but hey, to you, it's just a battery without an altenator.

my wife gets induced on tuesday morning..now if you'll excuse me, I think it's time for me to bow out of this conversation.

Your wife gets induced on Tuesday? What wrong with gods way? Doesn't he have a plan. Why turn to godless science?

[CLX]

I would think that we have to agree to disagree. Life starts at conception in my world. I also believe abortion is a form of murder, the taking away of a life. With few exceptions, comparatively, at conception you have a human that will be born. Stopping that process unnaturally takes an innocent life. Left to continue naturally a baby will be born unless there is a miscarriage. How many abortions are of the type that a person was "recreating" and not "procreating"? There are times when a pregnancy might be terminated and that becomes a decision based on issues that can or will, affect the mother's life and the life of the child.

We all believe differently and as I said before, if it's not a life before a defined period what is it? A fetus? Living tissue that is developing? Everyone in this discussion got to go through the full term. I would ask would be better if all of us had not been born? I think not.

Originally Posted by mcan

the pregnancy starts. Not a "life." I believe that life starts when a pregnancy results in a human being. And that takes awhile. Now, I do agree that there is a sorites paradox inherent in the process of drawing that line. But I think it's pretty clear that a line needs to be drawn, even if it is arbitrary. Before that line, you have a 'fetus.' After that line, you have a human being with rights, and it's your responsibility to ensure it's safety and well being. I do think there should be a "save the mother" clause for problem pregnancies at all times though. I really can't understand (I will try to though) anybodies argument against early abortion. Seems to me it's just like putting ingredients into an oven and before they are cooked, deciding you don't want cake after all and taking them back out. No big deal.

*Didn't mean to hijack the thread at all. Just thought I'd throw out

[CLX]

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

Your wife gets induced on Tuesday? What wrong with gods way? Doesn't he have a plan. Why turn to godless science?

Why are you offended with a person getting induced? Are you offended because of a God that you don't believe in? Why is that?

[Dave Lane]

Originally Posted by CLX

Why are you offended with a person getting induced? Are you offended because of a God that you don't believe in? Why is that?

No he's always in favor of gods way. This is not "gods way"

[CLX]

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

No he's always in favor of gods way. This is not "gods way"

How do you know that? Did God tell you it's not his way? A doctor is nothing more than a tool. There were doctors in the Bible, were they wrong? Was the Bible wrong? You seem to be taking a stand on someone using what is available and outside of God's will. I would again ask, how do you come to that determination?

I would like to know what you feel God's way is, and how you've determined what it is.

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

What wrong with gods way?

...nice to see you admit God exists.

[CLX]

Originally Posted by mcan

And actually, I do want to correct you SLIGHTLY.

I'm not deciding at what point human life has value. I think human life ALWAYS has intrinsic value. I just don't believe that a fertilized egg, zygote or fetus is a human being, because it doesn't pass the eye test. Kinda like deciding is this art? hard to come up with a good philosophical argument to prove that something is art or not. It just has to pass the eye test.

A chair isn't a human being. A monkey isn't a human being but it's closer. A fetus isn't a human being but it's even closer than a monkey. At some point you look at it and go, "HEY WAIT A SECOND, that's a human being." And at that point, we need to stop the right to abortion and protect the baby, unless there is immediate danger to the mother.


Maybe I'm being annoying going on and on about this, and I really do want to be a respectful debater. But I think my argument is better than any I've heard for people who claim that as soon as the egg is fertilized, you got yourself a human being. Just doesn't make sense to me.

The right to abortion is not something that should exist. If you believe in God you then go forth and procreate. Abortion is not procreating, I stated before that it's mostly the result of someone recreating and getting caught. There are some great people that are not here because they didn't have the same "right to life" that you did. It might not make sense to you, it does make sense if you look at the end result. If we were all not a human being from before we were formed in the womb (loosely taking that from the bible) there would be no plan for the planet. In my beliefs the taking of an innocent life is wrong, should it be 4 days after conception or 3 months after birth or 35 years after birth.

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by mcan

Fair enough, and congratulations.

Thanks Matt...

Happy Holidays to you and your family.