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Old 09-18-2014, 01:49 AM  
pr_capone pr_capone is offline
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The Air Force will now allow airmen to omit ‘so help me God’ from enlistment oaths

Good.

Freedom of religion includes freedom from religion. The Air Force had no business requiring anyone, enlisted or commissioned, to swear an oath to any deity.

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/c...istment-oaths/

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After an airman was unable to complete his reenlistment because he omitted the part of a required oath that states “so help me God,” the Air Force changed its instructions for the oath.

Following a review of the policy by the Department of Defense General Counsel, the Air Force will now permit airmen to omit the phrase, should they so choose. That change is effective immediately, according to an Air Force statement.

“We take any instance in which Airmen report concerns regarding religious freedom seriously,” Secretary of the Air Force Deborah Lee James said in the statement. “We are making the appropriate adjustments to ensure our Airmen’s rights are protected.

“The Air Force will be updating the instructions for both enlisted and commissioned Airmen to reflect these changes in the coming weeks, but the policy change is effective now. Airmen who choose to omit the words ‘So help me God’ from enlistment and officer appointment oaths may do so.”

The issue gained national attention in early September after a letter from the American Humanist Association outlined the case of an airman stationed at Creech Air Force Base in Nevada who was unable to complete his reenlistment after striking out the phrase in question on a form. The AHA said it was prepared to sue on religious freedom grounds unless the airman was allowed to reenlist without saying the phrase. The requirement, the AHA argued, violated the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution.

The issue drew attention to a previously unnoticed rule change: The rules governing the Air Force’s enlistment oaths used to include a note stating that “Airmen may omit the words ‘so help me God,’ if desired for personal reasons.” That exception quietly disappeared in October 2013, after which the Air Force required the inclusion of the full oath for any enlistment or reenlistment.

Now, the airman’s paperwork “will be processed to completion,” the Air Force statement said.

“We are pleased that the U.S. Department of Defense has confirmed our client has a First Amendment right to omit the reference to a supreme being in his reenlistment oath,” Monica Miller, an attorney with the American Humanist Association’s Appignani Humanist Legal Center, said in an emailed statement.
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:42 AM   #2
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Good. I want to know who made the change in the first place, and why.
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:47 AM   #3
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This is wonderful . Now all those people who 'don't believe' in God don't have to take an oath under a God that doesn't exist.

Whew...Glad this is front page news ...Not sure I would feel safe with people swearing an oath to an imaginary being...as opposed to whatever it is theyre now going to 'swear an oath' to.
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:53 AM   #4
loochy loochy is offline
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Ok, that's fine. What's the big deal?
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:53 AM   #5
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That "imaginary being", according to our Founding Fathers, endowed us with unalienable rights.

No Creator, no unalienable rights. Rights come from the "benevolence" of government. Good luck with that.
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:55 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
This is wonderful . Now all those people who 'don't believe' in God don't have to take an oath under a God that doesn't exist.

Whew...Glad this is front page news ...Not sure I would feel safe with people swearing an oath to an imaginary being...as opposed to whatever it is theyre now going to 'swear an oath' to.
The flip side of this is that some religious people do not feel it is appropriate to swear an oath to God regarding secular issues. It should be noted that the text is as follows:

"I, (state name of enlistee), do solemnly swear (or affirm)..."
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:57 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
That "imaginary being", according to our Founding Fathers, endowed us with unalienable rights.

No Creator, no unalienable rights. Rights come from the "benevolence" of government. Good luck with that.

Our rights come from our collective will, as pointed out in the US Constitution, the document that our entire legal system is based upon.
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
That "imaginary being", according to our Founding Fathers, endowed us with unalienable rights.

No Creator, no unalienable rights. Rights come from the "benevolence" of government. Good luck with that.
Unalienable: incapable of being alienated, that is, sold and transferred." Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, page 1523:

Inalienable rights: Rights which are not capable of being surrendered or transferred without the consent of the one possessing such rights. Morrison v. State, Mo. App., 252 S.W.2d 97, 101.


If the unalienable rights are such because they are “endowed by their Creator” does the creator have to be God? Could the creator be the natural progression of things in the universe or an advanced little green man that for lack of a better way of putting it, planted a garden on the Earth?
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:25 PM   #9
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Really? “God” is not an ambiguous enough term that it really shouldn't irritate people let alone Air Force cadets? Congratulations, the brass is polished and the deck chairs are arranged properly on the Titanic. Victory at last!!!


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Old 09-18-2014, 01:02 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Good. I want to know who made the change in the first place, and why.

Agreed. I don't know that he should be discharged, but he should definitely be given the hairy eyeball and a tongue lashing.

The Air Force isn't some bastion for proselytizing...
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Old 09-18-2014, 01:06 PM   #11
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
That "imaginary being", according to our Founding Fathers, endowed us with unalienable rights.

No Creator, no unalienable rights. Rights come from the "benevolence" of government. Good luck with that.

You mean the rights normally referred to as "natural rights", as being from nature OR God? And used to contest "divine rights" given to kings?

Those rights, right?

Yeah, not believing in sky god doesn't eliminate natural rights, sorry.
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:06 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Otter View Post
Really? “God” is not an ambiguous enough term that it really shouldn't irritate people let alone Air Force cadets? Congratulations, the brass is polished and the deck chairs are arranged properly on the Titanic. Victory at last!!!


Ambiguity isn't really the issue. Making a religious figure ambiguous doesn't negate forcing religion upon those who don't want it.
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:28 PM   #13
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Ambiguity isn't really the issue. Making a religious figure ambiguous doesn't negate forcing religion upon those who don't want it.
Poor baby, having to say "God" in an oath for a organization that he volentarely signed up to be a part of by choice. I'm sure next they were going to force him to attend churce, get baptized, circumcized then blow an alter boy.

If you look up the definition for "God" one of the interpertations doesn't involve relegion what so ever. Just suck it up for the 5 second oath and quit being a whiney bitch is what I guess I'm saying. You're in the Air Force, it's not all about you anymore.

Personally I hope both parties get the soap in the sock treatment for being such self-rightous ****s.
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:38 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
The flip side of this is that some religious people do not feel it is appropriate to swear an oath to God regarding secular issues. It should be noted that the text is as follows:

"I, (state name of enlistee), do solemnly swear (or affirm)..."
I don't really have a problem with it...

I understand the 'logic.'

I just dont see myself as the kind of person who would seek out an organization, volunteer for it, and then try to change their rules because of me being personally butthurt by an imaginary oath to a being I don't believe in....

I would find a different battle to fight in life...

But hey thats why life is interesting because of the variety of folks out there....ANd, thats why there is still bitches to be snuggled and bottles to be drank, and money to be grabbed by the sackful....because people are so busy fighting the wrong battles (IMO)...

Just my 2 cents
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Old 09-18-2014, 02:48 PM   #15
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Poor baby, having to say "God" in an oath for a organization that he volentarely signed up to be a part of by choice. I'm sure next they were going to force him to attend churce, get baptized, circumcized then blow an alter boy.

If you look up the definition for "God" one of the interpertations doesn't involve relegion what so ever. Just suck it up for the 5 second oath and quit being a whiney bitch is what I guess I'm saying. You're in the Air Force, it's not all about you anymore.

Personally I hope both parties get the soap in the sock treatment for being such self-rightous ****s.
It doesn't matter what definition of God you want to use. They're all belief systems. You can't force your belief system on others. You act like making it ambiguous, or making it a very brief 5 seconds, makes government subjection permissible. It's not a matter of amount...
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