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Old 09-06-2012, 07:29 PM  
RINGLEADER RINGLEADER is offline
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How Do You Grow the Economy From the Middle Out

I keep hearing this line from the Dems. How, precisely, do you grow the economy "from the middle out?"
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:27 AM   #61
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Do you think the large corporations started out that way or do you believe that the majority of large corporations started out as small business?


Single payer healthcare is only funded through additional taxes on business and earners. It's an additional anchor on the neck of every small business in the country.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:34 AM   #62
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I admire your resolve but don't think much of how you view issues related to your employee. When you can change your demeanor in the way you view your employee you will be wealthy. Until you do, you'll constantly be looking the government for incentives to compensate for your personal shortcoming. Tough words? Sure, but they are only to wake you up. I'm pulling for you to succeed, and for your employee to succeed too, who wouldn't have had a chance unless your government put some faith in YOU. Ironically, that's exactly what President Obama said to you last night.
First of all, sodomize yourself.

You have no idea how I view employees. I have never "looked for government incentives"....but when I was attempting to create my first job, the year of tax break made it more feasible. You have no idea how many local kids I've helped with part time jobs and internships and references and career advice in exchange for a few hours of their time helping me.
I haven't needed nor have I asked the government to do anything but get out of my way.

The problem with your view of the world is that 10 years from now, after I and many of those like me have spent so many nights in our small cramped home offices grinding until 2am and back at it at 6am, working part time jobs, risking our life savings finally become successful in return for our hours and years of hard work and time away from our children....you want to F us to tears with taxes. Employees can be a pain in the ass because they're human beings but the real problem is the government bullshit that comes with them via unemployment and workforce development and dept of revenue and on and on. My government didn't do ANYTHING to get or keep my business going.

Success should not be punished. It should be encouraged.

The only thing I want from my government is to not regulate or tax me out of business. Stay the hell out of my way and I'll do fine, more very good jobs will be created.

I built that.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:36 AM   #63
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You are relying on the naive notion that all middle class income goes into spending. Much of it goes into saving, and often time that saving occurs under the mattress. Or to pay down debt, which is not consumption. You also leave out that the problem isn't about stimulating the middle class. It's about assuming they'll use handouts to better themselves. But that money often gets wasted on bureaucrats. It gets abused dramatically by he middle class taking more than their fair share.

I'm all for distributing wealth. But liberals make a false sh assumption that this money actually ends up in the right hands. Incidentally, conservatives make the false assumption that a rich guy will invest back into the economy. And it enrages me that no candidate is willing to meet in the middle and realize that both ideologies are flawed.
Marignal utility of a dollar. Read up on it.

Middle class people are much more likely to spend an additional dollar. Their is a ton of work on money multiplier. It is much more beneficial to an economy to put extra money in the hands of the people who will spend it.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:44 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
First of all, sodomize yourself.

You have no idea how I view employees. I have never "looked for government incentives"....but when I was attempting to create my first job, the year of tax break made it more feasible. You have no idea how many local kids I've helped with part time jobs and internships and references and career advice in exchange for a few hours of their time helping me.
I haven't needed nor have I asked the government to do anything but get out of my way.

The problem with your view of the world is that 10 years from now, after I and many of those like me have spent so many nights in our small cramped home offices grinding until 2am and back at it at 6am, working part time jobs, risking our life savings finally become successful in return for our hours and years of hard work and time away from our children....you want to F us to tears with taxes. Employees can be a pain in the ass because they're human beings but the real problem is the government bullshit that comes with them via unemployment and workforce development and dept of revenue and on and on. My government didn't do ANYTHING to get or keep my business going.

Success should not be punished. It should be encouraged.

The only thing I want from my government is to not regulate or tax me out of business. Stay the hell out of my way and I'll do fine, more very good jobs will be created.

I built that.
Waaaaaaaahhhhhhh taxes waaaaaaaaaaaah

You are a rube if you think the GOP's policies are beneficial to anyone other than the already well off.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:48 AM   #65
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Marignal utility of a dollar. Read up on it.

Middle class people are much more likely to spend an additional dollar. Their is a ton of work on money multiplier. It is much more beneficial to an economy to put extra money in the hands of the people who will spend it.
Outside of normal consumer spending, middle class families will be more able to pay their mortgages, thus less foreclosures. They will be able to save to help send their children to college, and that is good for everybody. The ripple effect of more money to the middle class is pretty huge.
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Old 09-07-2012, 10:49 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
Do you think the large corporations started out that way or do you believe that the majority of large corporations started out as small business?


Single payer healthcare is only funded through additional taxes on business and earners. It's an additional anchor on the neck of every small business in the country.
Perhaps if you gave a raise to employees so they could go out and buy insurance then you wouldn't have an anchor to tug along, and the burden of your conscience would be light too.
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:10 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
Do you think the large corporations started out that way or do you believe that the majority of large corporations started out as small business?


Single payer healthcare is only funded through additional taxes on business and earners. It's an additional anchor on the neck of every small business in the country.
Starting out as a small business has nothing to do with their present reality. It's more likely to me that they would use a tax break and a team of lawyers to keep a small business out of their market. No competiton= all profits.

Is veteran healthcare a burden on small business? How about the healthcare of your parents and grandparents? Are they a burden to?
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:41 AM   #68
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Perhaps if you gave a raise to employees so they could go out and buy insurance then you wouldn't have an anchor to tug along, and the burden of your conscience would be light too.

You clearly live in an alternate or drug clouded reality.
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I said I'm an expert dickrider.
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Old 09-07-2012, 11:59 AM   #69
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Perhaps if you gave a raise to employees so they could go out and buy insurance then you wouldn't have an anchor to tug along, and the burden of your conscience would be light too.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:01 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by KC native View Post
Marignal utility of a dollar. Read up on it.

Middle class people are much more likely to spend an additional dollar. Their is a ton of work on money multiplier. It is much more beneficial to an economy to put extra money in the hands of the people who will spend it.
And you are again assuming that taxpayer money gets consumed by the right part of the middle class. How many employees and bureaucrats do you need to issue one food stamp? How many bureaucrats do you need to provide Medicare to one person? The list goes on.

My main example is one that infuriates me. I'm all for increasing education funding. But how much of that goes to teachers and school supplies Vs. how much goes to union heads and crooked lobbying?
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:04 PM   #71
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Waaaaaaaahhhhhhh taxes waaaaaaaaaaaah

You are a rube if you think the GOP's policies are beneficial to anyone other than the already well off.
Regulations hurt small business over 4 times more than they do corporations.

So yeah, increased regulation hurts small businesses. The left too often confuses small business owners with corporations. Small businesses are proven time and time and time again to be an engine for growth. Because unlike a CEO, a small business owner has everything to lose if they aren't very smart about handling employees.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:04 PM   #72
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Perhaps if you gave a raise to employees so they could go out and buy insurance then you wouldn't have an anchor to tug along, and the burden of your conscience would be light too.
I'd be delighted give my employees a raise and let them all cover their own health insurance. It'd be great for profits in the long run since those costs rise disproportionately every year. I don't think the employees would like it very much, though.

I've never figured out why health coverage is something that employers have to be involved in. We're not involved in employee housing or employee television purchase decisions. Why are we involved in employee health coverage?
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:18 PM   #73
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The independent CBO issued a report this summer that regulations do NOT have a material impact on small business to the degree often claimed. Also, a comprehensive study was conducted with business owners and published by McClatchy that business owners were not that concerned with regulations, customers were more important to them. It is the great right wing excuse, a bizzare mischaracterization of reality, and a classic tactic of avoiding responsibility for failure. It's become a national joke that makes republican politicans look stupid.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:28 PM   #74
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The independent CBO issued a report this summer that regulations do NOT have a material impact on small business to the degree often claimed. Also, a comprehensive study was conducted with business owners and published by McClatchy that business owners were not that concerned with regulations, customers were more important to them. It is the great right wing excuse, a bizzare mischaracterization of reality, and a classic tactic of avoiding responsibility for failure. It's become a national joke that makes republican politicans look stupid.
The U.S. chamber of commerce has an official study that stated that 52% of small business owners listed increased regulations as their number 1 concern. I trust the chamber with their data a hell of a lot more than I do a newspaper publisher.
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:50 PM   #75
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I'd be delighted give my employees a raise and let them all cover their own health insurance. It'd be great for profits in the long run since those costs rise disproportionately every year. I don't think the employees would like it very much, though.

I've never figured out why health coverage is something that employers have to be involved in. We're not involved in employee housing or employee television purchase decisions. Why are we involved in employee health coverage?
I get your position. Somehow the benefit package thing just got out of control. Employers saw it as a way to curtail compensation. It was the same thing with the 401K, it bailed them out of pensions. There is no question both sides ultimately ended up losing here. But I think Americans now view health care as a right in this country. The rational way forward is single payer, give it to everyone and control the cost. Now that the markets are incredibly unstable and several trillon was wiped out in the Bush financial collapse social security is emerging as the only practical retirement.
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