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Old 09-06-2012, 07:29 PM  
RINGLEADER RINGLEADER is offline
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How Do You Grow the Economy From the Middle Out

I keep hearing this line from the Dems. How, precisely, do you grow the economy "from the middle out?"
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:55 PM   #76
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But I think Americans now view health care as a right in this country. Now that the markets are incredibly unstable and several trillon was wiped out in the Bush financial collapse social security is emerging as the only practical retirement.
A) Health Care is NOT a right. (indicate in the constitution where it is please)

"enter key"

B) SS is not the only practical retirement if you get a job, work hard, spend frugally and save/invest your money responsibly. Unfortunately, you cannot fathom this. Successful people do
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:56 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Lightrise View Post
Arthur Laffer the famous supply side economist and seen as the father of the Reagan economic policy WARNED that taxes on the wealthy must not go below 50%.
Link?
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Old 09-07-2012, 12:57 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by ChiefaRoo View Post
Growing from the middle out is all rhetorical nonsense. It can't be done unless of course we get what Obama wants which is a huge Govt. with more and more people working for the Govt. Then you can grow it for awhile until the private sector cannot support the model any longer and it collapses on itself.

No, the ONLY true way to build a healthy middle class is to grow businesses that are sized from less than ten to about 2000 employees. These businesses are the backbone of America. Obama likes to talk about building things in the USA. I can tell you that if the Govt. gave tax breaks for manufacturers to put million dollar milling and boring type of equipment in the USA then they would. Right now it's better/cheaper to Mfg. in China with that machine and then box up the product and ship it back to the USA to get put together into a final product.

There's a lot that could be done to incentify manufacturers to spend on cap ex. in the US and in turn that has a multiplying effect where companies buy from each other (which creates jobs) and they in turn build things in the US and that grows these companies. (Which creates still more jobs)

We also need a healthy retail consumer but they need a job first. Obama is hostile towards the private sector. He wants to raise taxes on Companies whose owners make $250,000 because they have organized their companies in a way that has them run their profits through their personal taxes. This will KILL job growth.

What I think needs to be done is the following;

1) Cut corporate tax rates to bring mfg. jobs back into the USA. Make it cheaper to Mfg. in the USA and jobs will be created

2) Eliminate loops holes for the truly rich (In my mind those are take home pay people who make $1Million or more in salary. We could argue that maybe it's $750,000 ... Tax their take home NOT the revenue from their companies.

NOTE: Corn should be going into our food supply not our gas tank. You can only grow so much of it. Either scale it back, reduce or eliminate the subsidy and get it back into the food supply to lower the costs of everything from Ketchup to Steak.

3) Make everyone pay some federal tax. Bush made a huge mistake letting nearly 1/2 of the population pay nothing. Even if it's a ham sandwich everyone should have skin in the game.

4) Incentify mega corporations to grow by letting them drill for energy in the USA. I'm talking Oil, Nat.Gas, Coal, Nuclear and Wind/Solar. Then tax their profits a bit higher. They will make more money but the risk will be worth it for them and they will grow profits and pay more to the treasury. Gas prices will go down which in turn will lower food prices.

4) CUT the size of the Federal Govt. The Feds are bloated. We are running Trillion dollar deficits. This includes a modest cut to the military. I SAID MODEST.

5) Re-organize social entitlements going forward. We've got to re-structure the safety net without destroying it for current older people but take into consideration the fact that younger people will live longer and will be healthier due to advancements in medicine. Like Ryan says if your less than 55 it will change, over? then don't worry your set.

6) Re-structure, replace Obamacare so that it creates competition and responsibility with the provider and the consumer. Open it up. I'm not an expert but we have to get to the point where we shop medical care at least as well as we do a new car. Keep some elements of Obamacare in place, pre-existing conditions is one. Eliminate others.. No reason a healthy 26 year old man or woman needs to be on mommy and daddy's insurance. That's crap, get a job and get you're own insurance. Create a catastrophic coverage safety net for the suddenly seriously ill so caps don't limit out and crush the savings of hard working people. If your kid gets sick and needs $2M worth or medical care you shouldn't go bankrupt trying to keep him alive because you get capped out. That's a moral imperative and we should all rally around that.

There's more but this is a good start and this is what I would expect Romney/Ryan to do based on their speeches and background.
I endorse this post.
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Old 09-07-2012, 01:17 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
The U.S. chamber of commerce has an official study that stated that 52% of small business owners listed increased regulations as their number 1 concern. I trust the chamber with their data a hell of a lot more than I do a newspaper publisher.
The US Chamber of Commerce is a lobbying group. They say whatever the donors want them tto say. Their work is relegated to the same bin as AEI.
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Old 09-07-2012, 03:49 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by KC native View Post
The US Chamber of Commerce is a lobbying group. They say whatever the donors want them tto say. Their work is relegated to the same bin as AEI.
Fair enough. Then if that source doesn't work for you, maybe Gallup will.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/150287/go...blem-list.aspx

I'm looking at the McClatchy survey light rise studied. Nowhere do I see anything about their research design. The Gallup study had 600+ respondents, which means that the data is accurate and significant. And anyone who knows Gallup knows that their sampling is selected extremely carefully.

Surveys can be used to tell you whatever they want. I see this mistake all the time. My guess is that McClatchy interviewed a small set of businessowners, did not control whatsoever for the sample, and has no way of proving that the data is significant.

In the research world, that's called "qualitative." It's meant to give you interesting information, but it's never meant to be taken as fact. Unless someone can show me a research design that proves me wrong.
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Old 09-07-2012, 04:48 PM   #81
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Old 09-07-2012, 04:55 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
First of all, sodomize yourself.

You have no idea how I view employees. I have never "looked for government incentives"....but when I was attempting to create my first job, the year of tax break made it more feasible. You have no idea how many local kids I've helped with part time jobs and internships and references and career advice in exchange for a few hours of their time helping me.
I haven't needed nor have I asked the government to do anything but get out of my way.

The problem with your view of the world is that 10 years from now, after I and many of those like me have spent so many nights in our small cramped home offices grinding until 2am and back at it at 6am, working part time jobs, risking our life savings finally become successful in return for our hours and years of hard work and time away from our children....you want to F us to tears with taxes. Employees can be a pain in the ass because they're human beings but the real problem is the government bullshit that comes with them via unemployment and workforce development and dept of revenue and on and on. My government didn't do ANYTHING to get or keep my business going.

Success should not be punished. It should be encouraged.

The only thing I want from my government is to not regulate or tax me out of business. Stay the hell out of my way and I'll do fine, more very good jobs will be created.

I built that.
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Old 09-07-2012, 04:56 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by KC native View Post
Waaaaaaaahhhhhhh taxes waaaaaaaaaaaah

You are a rube if you think the GOP's policies are beneficial to anyone other than the already well off.
Is that a leaf blower in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:23 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Fair enough. Then if that source doesn't work for you, maybe Gallup will.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/150287/go...blem-list.aspx

I'm looking at the McClatchy survey light rise studied. Nowhere do I see anything about their research design. The Gallup study had 600+ respondents, which means that the data is accurate and significant. And anyone who knows Gallup knows that their sampling is selected extremely carefully.

Surveys can be used to tell you whatever they want. I see this mistake all the time. My guess is that McClatchy interviewed a small set of businessowners, did not control whatsoever for the sample, and has no way of proving that the data is significant.

In the research world, that's called "qualitative." It's meant to give you interesting information, but it's never meant to be taken as fact. Unless someone can show me a research design that proves me wrong.
Yea I don't put much weight in surveys due to people's hardwired biases and the nature of phone polling errors/structure.

About the only thing that i think phone polling does well is predicting election outfomes. I could give a **** less what a majority of people think.
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:27 PM   #85
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Is that a leaf blower in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?
You are a loser. What's sad is you think these lame ass tired "insults" are either funny (they aren't) or insulting (when it comes from the resident racist, it loses impact).
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:30 PM   #86
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Old 09-07-2012, 05:30 PM   #87
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You are a loser. What's sad is you think these lame ass tired "insults" are either funny (they aren't) or insulting (when it comes from the resident racist, it loses impact).
What's that? No habla. Why are you talking when you should be working? I knew when I saw you in the Home Depot parking lot I should have driven past you to the next group.
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Old 09-07-2012, 06:19 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
First of all, sodomize yourself.

You have no idea how I view employees. I have never "looked for government incentives"....but when I was attempting to create my first job, the year of tax break made it more feasible. You have no idea how many local kids I've helped with part time jobs and internships and references and career advice in exchange for a few hours of their time helping me.
I haven't needed nor have I asked the government to do anything but get out of my way.

The problem with your view of the world is that 10 years from now, after I and many of those like me have spent so many nights in our small cramped home offices grinding until 2am and back at it at 6am, working part time jobs, risking our life savings finally become successful in return for our hours and years of hard work and time away from our children....you want to F us to tears with taxes. Employees can be a pain in the ass because they're human beings but the real problem is the government bullshit that comes with them via unemployment and workforce development and dept of revenue and on and on. My government didn't do ANYTHING to get or keep my business going.

Success should not be punished. It should be encouraged.

The only thing I want from my government is to not regulate or tax me out of business. Stay the hell out of my way and I'll do fine, more very good jobs will be created.

I built that.
What you've built is a hole that can swallow a truck
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Old 09-07-2012, 06:30 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by KC Dan View Post
A) Health Care is NOT a right. (indicate in the constitution where it is please)

"enter key"

B) SS is not the only practical retirement if you get a job, work hard, spend frugally and save/invest your money responsibly. Unfortunately, you cannot fathom this. Successful people do
In the eyes of the majority of Americans health care is a right, a basic human right. However, I do know there is a 'torture' lobby in this country. Social Security is not the only practical retirement, you are right about that. But I'm framing the argument for millions of people who do work hard and it will be a critical safety net for them. I would argue, based on your view here, that you have failed miserably to grasp the meaning of true richness.
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Old 09-07-2012, 07:21 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
The Republican strategy makes sense to me more than the Dem for reasons directly relating to what I have shared above. Reducing government red tape, environmental regulations and other ignorant restrictions are important. Lowering taxes on businesses and payroll taxes make it possible to stay afloat during the vital first 2 years of a business. Less taxes, less expenses fighting through government requirements can make or break creation of a new job.

Making it easier for existing business to expand for corporations to grow and for people with the financial means to either create business or spent that money as an investor in a new company in my opinion are the best way to create jobs.

I'm not a 1%, I'm not wealthy but I am a small business owner who is absolutely against the democratic talking points which have zero actual strategy or impact on new business development.
I'm all for lowering taxes on the middle class, lowering them for small business owners. Not for the rich. And the definition of a "small buiness owner" is BS. Billionaires, Billion $ companies. Thats where the seperation occurs btween what is a small business owner and who is not. We define it better, who gets those tax breaks, i could go along.

Obama put forth a huge tax cut for businesses this summer, why didnt the Republicans vote for it?

I think your struggle is what every american should support. A guy has an idea, puts his heart and soul into it, hires a few people etc. Thats exactly how we build the middle class and get out of this mess.

I'm also against stupid ass regulations. I have to deal with that stupidity daily. But, we almost had another depression because we allowed businesses to do whatever they wanted. Almost total deregulation caused so much harm to this country. Wheres that line when we have trip wires in place so that businesses dont cause us all to suffer a depression?
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