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Old 09-11-2012, 01:11 PM  
Donger Donger is offline
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Protesters storm U.S. Embassy in Cairo

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/11/world/...html?hpt=hp_t1

I suppose it's a good thing that "it doesn't have to be a good thing for us"....

Cairo (CNN) -- Angry protesters climbed the walls of the U.S. Embassy in Cairo on Tuesday and hauled down the American flag, replacing it with a black standard with Islamic emblems, apparently in protest of the production of a film thought to insult the Prophet Mohammed.

The incident prompted a volley of warning shots to be fired as a large crowd gathered outside, said CNN producer Mohammed Fahmy, who was on the scene.

The replacement flag read, "There is no God but Allah and Mohammad is his messenger."

Others expressed more general grievances about U.S. policy, chanting anti-American slogans and holding up bits of a shredded American flag to television camera crews in front of the embassy.

An embassy operator told CNN that the facility had been cleared of diplomatic personnel earlier Tuesday, ahead of the apparent threat, while Egyptian riot police were called to help secure the area.

The U.S. Embassy said in a statement Tuesday that it "condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims -- as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions."

"Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy," the statement said. "We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others."

The incident occurred on the 11th anniversary of the September 11 attacks in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania, as crowds gathered in somber remembrance of the nearly 3,000 people killed that day.

It is not clear which film upset the protesters in Cairo.

In 2008, an anti-Muslim and anti-immigration parliamentarian from The Netherlands sparked international outcry when he produced a film that portrayed Islam as a violent religion.

Geert Wilders' film "Fitna," which he released online, featured images of terrorist acts superimposed over verses from the Quran.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:37 PM   #211
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
The statement should NEVER have been made. Under ANY circumstances. End of story. There is NO POSSIBLE defense for that statement being put out by a representative of the US government. (given the context)
The only thing I see wrong with the statement is it misses an unequivocable support for free expression.

Other than that...?
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:39 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I think they're both stupid for criticizing it. It's not controversial, and it's standard procedure when embassies feel native populations' tensions rising.

Romney's wrong when he says Obama said it. That's the first major sin of this whole stupid thing.
NO IT IS NOT. You just pulled that SOP out of your ass. The statement is indefensible. Period.

Yes, Romney was wrong for blaming Obama. He never says Obama said it or even approved it.. he said (correctly) that the President is responsible for the statements and actions of members of his State Dept. BUT it is not the correct way for Romney to paint this. It is technically true but in my opinion deceptive, blame the people directly responsible or better yet, simply attack the statement itself.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:41 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
The only thing I see wrong with the statement is it misses an unequivocable support for free expression.

Other than that...?
Taken COMPLETELY out of context (and adding a bit more to defend free speech) and issued stateside away from any possible conflict... yeah it's fine. Issued in the context it was and the place it was.. it amounts to giving in to terrorists demands. It is completely inexcusable. There is a good reason Obama wants NOTHING to do with it.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:43 PM   #214
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Do you ****ING REALIZE IT DOESN'T MATTER? The statement was wrong. Period. it should never have been said for ANY ****ING REASON at ANY ****ING TIME.

Obama himself has pretty much said as much. Why is it wrong for Romney to say the same thing?

The PROBLEM with Romney's statement is that it appears to place blame on Obama when it should instead be limited to a complaint about the statement itself and the person DIRECTLY responsible for issuing it.

I have no problem with Romney's statements so far but I will take issue if he makes statements about how we should respond to things and what we do now, without giving everyone time to get the facts straight and gather intel. As I stated earlier, it's time now for him to be reserved on this.
The statement came from the State Department that has at it's political head Obama's Sec. of State. Let's just admit it. The Liberals in power are and have beem wrong headed about how they use rhetoric to define the muslims who want to tear the USA down. Obama's weak projection of US power has invited attack. So they coordinated an attack on our Embassy on 9/11 and drug the Ambassadors body through the street. They'd do a lot worse if they could. You can deny it if you like but maybe some of you ought to reconsider parts of George W's war on terror policy that you whined about for the eight years he was in office. Take a look at the dead Ambassadors photo and then tell me we should be against waterboarding to save lives and close Quantanamo. Some of you have had your head up you a@@ so long you may never see daylight again. Better run and hide reality is knocking at the door.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:43 PM   #215
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
There is no obligation to defuse a protest from a bunch of loons.
Uh, safety?
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:44 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
NO IT IS NOT. You just pulled that SOP out of your ass. The statement is indefensible. Period.
Why?

I guess I don't see why.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:45 PM   #217
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Taken COMPLETELY out of context (and adding a bit more to defend free speech) and issued stateside away from any possible conflict... yeah it's fine. Issued in the context it was and the place it was.. it amounts to giving in to terrorists demands. It is completely inexcusable. There is a good reason Obama wants NOTHING to do with it.
Terrorists are demanding that we reaffirm our belief in religious freedom?
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:46 PM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
John Lundin @johnlundin

A Jewish idiot makes a film, a Christian idiot promotes it, Muslim idiots kill over it, and Republican idiots condemn Obama.
Oh FFS you people will do ANYTHING to deflect blame.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:47 PM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Terrorists are demanding that we reaffirm our belief in religious freedom?
please read all the words... it AMOUNTS to...

The statement was meant to appease a group of radicals who have no respect for free speech or true democracy. that is NOT how America should be represented. Obama and ROmney agree with me on this one. You're on your own defending this piece of shit statement.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:49 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
The statement should NEVER have been made. Under ANY circumstances. End of story. There is NO POSSIBLE defense for that statement being put out by a representative of the US government. (given the context)
Bullcrap.

ROMNEY basically had the exact same characterization of the movie as our government. Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism, and our government also has freedom of speech.

Since the riots and attacks had not happened yet, all you have is "the government should never criticize a movie", which is absurd.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:52 PM   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Do you ****ING REALIZE IT DOESN'T MATTER? The statement was wrong. Period. it should never have been said for ANY ****ING REASON at ANY ****ING TIME.

Obama himself has pretty much said as much. Why is it wrong for Romney to say the same thing?

The PROBLEM with Romney's statement is that it appears to place blame on Obama when it should instead be limited to a complaint about the statement itself and the person DIRECTLY responsible for issuing it.

I have no problem with Romney's statements so far but I will take issue if he makes statements about how we should respond to things and what we do now, without giving everyone time to get the facts straight and gather intel. As I stated earlier, it's time now for him to be reserved on this.

I'm really missing the horrendous betrayal of American values in that statement.

I guess if your position is to send the Marines to the walls and say "Freedom of speech bitches, if you don't like it, eat lead", that's fine, but I'm not seeing this statement as any kind of "giving in to terrorists demands". In fact, that is probably the silliest statement I've ever seen you make on here, since you're usually among the more rational of posters.
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Old 09-12-2012, 03:53 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
please read all the words... it AMOUNTS to...

The statement was meant to appease a group of radicals who have no respect for free speech or true democracy.
What's wrong with a vain attempt to pacify the situation?

We didn't give up anything by saying it. We didn't even say anything new -- we just attempted to establish common ground with the protesters by reminding them of our belief in religious freedom.

I fail to see the significance, I really do.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:02 PM   #223
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:02 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
I'm really missing the horrendous betrayal of American values in that statement.

I guess if your position is to send the Marines to the walls and say "Freedom of speech bitches, if you don't like it, eat lead", that's fine, but I'm not seeing this statement as any kind of "giving in to terrorists demands". In fact, that is probably the silliest statement I've ever seen you make on here, since you're usually among the more rational of posters.
It's the context. In the context in which it was issued it is completely out of line. It's something you would expect from a European country not from us.

If I run an embassy representing the US and I'm stationed in Widgetonia and the Widgetonians hate women and are planning to protest equal rights. I do NOT put out a statement saying that "hey, we don't like it when women get uppity too!" It's the absolute WRONG message to send.

And in this case, it is not just offensive to me as an American.. it's just plain DUMB.. nothing we could have said would have made a lick of difference. So instead we simply appear weak and get nothing accomplished.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:04 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
I'm really missing the horrendous betrayal of American values in that statement.

I guess if your position is to send the Marines to the walls and say "Freedom of speech bitches, if you don't like it, eat lead", that's fine, but I'm not seeing this statement as any kind of "giving in to terrorists demands". In fact, that is probably the silliest statement I've ever seen you make on here, since you're usually among the more rational of posters.
the point is this administration made a big deal out of "outreach" to muslims and the changing of rhetoric towards muslim extremists when they came to power. Obama then went on the apology tour which culminated with his speech in Cairo. The whole dog and pony show did nothing except project weakness. The whole knee jerk reaction (which is what the initial statement of apology was) was put in place by this administration. It's wrong and it's always been wrong.
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