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Old 09-11-2012, 01:11 PM  
Donger Donger is offline
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Protesters storm U.S. Embassy in Cairo

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/11/world/...html?hpt=hp_t1

I suppose it's a good thing that "it doesn't have to be a good thing for us"....

Cairo (CNN) -- Angry protesters climbed the walls of the U.S. Embassy in Cairo on Tuesday and hauled down the American flag, replacing it with a black standard with Islamic emblems, apparently in protest of the production of a film thought to insult the Prophet Mohammed.

The incident prompted a volley of warning shots to be fired as a large crowd gathered outside, said CNN producer Mohammed Fahmy, who was on the scene.

The replacement flag read, "There is no God but Allah and Mohammad is his messenger."

Others expressed more general grievances about U.S. policy, chanting anti-American slogans and holding up bits of a shredded American flag to television camera crews in front of the embassy.

An embassy operator told CNN that the facility had been cleared of diplomatic personnel earlier Tuesday, ahead of the apparent threat, while Egyptian riot police were called to help secure the area.

The U.S. Embassy said in a statement Tuesday that it "condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims -- as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions."

"Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy," the statement said. "We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others."

The incident occurred on the 11th anniversary of the September 11 attacks in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania, as crowds gathered in somber remembrance of the nearly 3,000 people killed that day.

It is not clear which film upset the protesters in Cairo.

In 2008, an anti-Muslim and anti-immigration parliamentarian from The Netherlands sparked international outcry when he produced a film that portrayed Islam as a violent religion.

Geert Wilders' film "Fitna," which he released online, featured images of terrorist acts superimposed over verses from the Quran.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:04 PM   #226
ChiefaRoo ChiefaRoo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
It's the context. In the context in which it was issued it is completely out of line. It's something you would expect from a European country not from us.

If I run an embassy representing the US and I'm stationed in Widgetonia and the Widgetonians hate women and are planning to protest equal rights. I do NOT put out a statement saying that "hey, we don't like it when women get uppity too!" It's the absolute WRONG message to send.

And in this case, it is not just offensive to me as an American.. it's just plain DUMB.. nothing we could have said would have made a lick of difference. So instead we simply appear weak and get nothing accomplished.

Yep.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:04 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
Since the riots and attacks had not happened yet, all you have is "the government should never criticize a movie", which is absurd.
Please get off the "timeline" aspect of things #1 you don't know the exact timeline...nor do I #2 it is meaningless anyway... they knew there was possible unrest(or already happening, doesn't matter) and they issued a statement that (given the context) was an OBVIOUS attempt at appeasement.

It's appalling.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:07 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
please read all the words... it AMOUNTS to...

The statement was meant to appease a group of radicals who have no respect for free speech or true democracy. that is NOT how America should be represented. Obama and ROmney agree with me on this one. You're on your own defending this piece of shit statement.
What do you see as the main difference?

Quote:

Statement from the U.S. Ambassador and Staff of the U.S. Embassy in Cairo

The Ambassador and staff of the U.S. Embassy in Cairo condemn the burning a copy of the Koran that occurred several days ago in the state of Florida by a small group of individuals who represent no one but themselves. Since the founding of our nation, the United States has upheld the principles of tolerance and respect for religious freedom. Millions of Muslim-Americans practice their faith freely throughout the United States and enjoy the full rights guaranteed to them by our laws and constitution. Public condemnation of this event has come from a variety of organizations representing the diverse religious traditions that flourish in the United States.
Quote:
U.S. Embassy Condemns Religious Incitement

September 11, 2012

The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions. Today, the 11th anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States, Americans are honoring our patriots and those who serve our nation as the fitting response to the enemies of democracy. Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy. We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:07 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
What's wrong with a vain attempt to pacify the situation?

We didn't give up anything by saying it. We didn't even say anything new -- we just attempted to establish common ground with the protesters by reminding them of our belief in religious freedom.

I fail to see the significance, I really do.
Here is where you are dead wrong. We accomplish nothing good and instead we sell out our beliefs in an attempt at appeasement and we appear weak to a culture that has ZERO respect for weakness. If you don't see that then you don't understand the culture at all.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:10 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
What do you see as the main difference?
In the statements? very little. Neither should have been made by the embassy in Cairo. If you want to make a statement from DC then I have slightly less of an issue, especially if it is not perceived as "under duress."

I am not comfortable with my government apologizing for Free Speech. No matter how offensive it is to one group or another. PERIOD.

If YOU HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING.. then say "hey, in America you can burn the Torah too if you want.. or make your own anti-Jew or anti-Christian videos... go for it.. we have free speech."
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:19 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Do you not understand that the embassy statement (the so-called apology or sympathizing with the attackers) was done BEFORE the attacks? BEFORE.
Do you not understand kowtowing to them is wrong no matter when you do it? And that the wrong is magnified 100X when it comes from our Potus?
Of course you don't. Candy ass.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:20 PM   #232
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
I do NOT put out a statement saying that "hey, we don't like it when women get uppity too!" It's the absolute WRONG message to send.
It's also a message anthitetical to what we believe, which is why that's a shit analogy.

This message put out by the embassy collided with our values in no way. It was a restatement of them.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:20 PM   #233
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‎"We will convey our deep appreciation for the Islamic faith, which has done so much over so many centuries to shape the world for the better, Including my own country
Really Obama ? Whose side are you on?
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:22 PM   #234
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Here is where you are dead wrong. We accomplish nothing good and instead we sell out our beliefs in an attempt at appeasement and we appear weak to a culture that has ZERO respect for weakness. If you don't see that then you don't understand the culture at all.
Sell out what beliefs?

I really don't understand what values we've undercut with a statement that is a flat restatement of those values.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:28 PM   #235
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
In the statements? very little. Neither should have been made by the embassy in Cairo. If you want to make a statement from DC then I have slightly less of an issue, especially if it is not perceived as "under duress."

I am not comfortable with my government apologizing for Free Speech. No matter how offensive it is to one group or another. PERIOD.

If YOU HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING.. then say "hey, in America you can burn the Torah too if you want.. or make your own anti-Jew or anti-Christian videos... go for it.. we have free speech."
that is easy to say when you are not in harm's way. The military along with other politicians got involved in the Koran book episode and pleaded with that guy not to pull that stunt because it puts our troops in much more danger than they already are.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:37 PM   #236
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This is basically a D grade movie nobody has seen outside of youtube made by a guy nobody can find. Muslims sure put in a lot of effort to find things to get offended about.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:39 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
that is easy to say when you are not in harm's way. The military along with other politicians got involved in the Koran book episode and pleaded with that guy not to pull that stunt because it puts our troops in much more danger than they already are.
Seriously? The harm's way argument is a weak one and not even Obama is pushing that as a legitimate excuse.

I have problems with the idiots who stoke the fires of hatred. Absolutely. I have 1000 TIMES a problem with our govt stepping in to basically validate those who are intolerant of free speech.

So yes, the govt (including military) needed to keep its ****ing mouth shut on the Koran incident. It's deplorable, but there are TONS of LEGAL deplorable things said and done every day. When was the last time the govt spoke out in a major way against the latest anti-semitic video? How about one attacking evolution? Or one attacking Catholics?

The only REASON we are speaking out is because there are violent extremist who want to hold our belief in free speech hostage. We are not capitulating but we sure as hell aren't standing up with a fully rigid spine. Tell the ****ers to go to hell. Period. (by ****ers, I mean ANYONE regardless of belief that thinks their beliefs come even close to trumping free speech)
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:43 PM   #238
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
that is easy to say when you are not in harm's way. The military along with other politicians got involved in the Koran book episode and pleaded with that guy not to pull that stunt because it puts our troops in much more danger than they already are.
Yup.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:43 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by PornChief View Post
This is basically a D grade movie nobody has seen outside of youtube made by a guy nobody can find. Muslims sure put in a lot of effort to find things to get offended about.
The protests were planned well before the film was released. The terrorist savage muslim leaders just used the film to further incite their cave-man followers to violence. Oh, and soccer hooligans as well.
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Old 09-12-2012, 04:44 PM   #240
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by PornChief View Post
This is basically a D grade movie nobody has seen outside of youtube made by a guy nobody can find. Muslims sure put in a lot of effort to find things to get offended about.
I'm pretty sure people were predicting this very early in this thread.
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