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Old 09-11-2012, 01:11 PM  
Donger Donger is offline
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Protesters storm U.S. Embassy in Cairo

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/11/world/...html?hpt=hp_t1

I suppose it's a good thing that "it doesn't have to be a good thing for us"....

Cairo (CNN) -- Angry protesters climbed the walls of the U.S. Embassy in Cairo on Tuesday and hauled down the American flag, replacing it with a black standard with Islamic emblems, apparently in protest of the production of a film thought to insult the Prophet Mohammed.

The incident prompted a volley of warning shots to be fired as a large crowd gathered outside, said CNN producer Mohammed Fahmy, who was on the scene.

The replacement flag read, "There is no God but Allah and Mohammad is his messenger."

Others expressed more general grievances about U.S. policy, chanting anti-American slogans and holding up bits of a shredded American flag to television camera crews in front of the embassy.

An embassy operator told CNN that the facility had been cleared of diplomatic personnel earlier Tuesday, ahead of the apparent threat, while Egyptian riot police were called to help secure the area.

The U.S. Embassy said in a statement Tuesday that it "condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims -- as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions."

"Respect for religious beliefs is a cornerstone of American democracy," the statement said. "We firmly reject the actions by those who abuse the universal right of free speech to hurt the religious beliefs of others."

The incident occurred on the 11th anniversary of the September 11 attacks in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania, as crowds gathered in somber remembrance of the nearly 3,000 people killed that day.

It is not clear which film upset the protesters in Cairo.

In 2008, an anti-Muslim and anti-immigration parliamentarian from The Netherlands sparked international outcry when he produced a film that portrayed Islam as a violent religion.

Geert Wilders' film "Fitna," which he released online, featured images of terrorist acts superimposed over verses from the Quran.
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:19 AM   #121
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Better the Devil you know than the one you don't!

Is anyone paying attention? Do you notice the parallels.
We elect a weak assed Democratic fool to the presidency!
He fails to support our allie in the country in question!
The radicals attack our embassy.

Compare 1979 to 2012.
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:19 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
My point is that the Arab Spring, which you supported so dramatically, has now lead directly to the deaths of Americans. The difference between this and Qaddafi is that I didn't support Qaddafi.

Which is why I took issue with your "it doesn't have to be a good thing for us" stupidity. Do you still think that?
I'm a believer in small-R republicanism, and self-determination. I believe it is a great thing for a society that does not experience those qualities to move towards them, and I definitely think it's a net gain to rid the world of brutal dictators like we've seen under seige during the Arab Spring. That, to me, is my guiding principle.

Sometimes, the move towards republicanism throughout the Middle East will work to our favor, sometimes it will not. I believe we should support the Spring whether it does or not. The Middle East, as well as several places on earth, needs to catch up to modernity.
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:24 AM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I'm a believer in small-R republicanism, and self-determination. I believe it is a great thing for a society that does not experience those qualities to move towards them, and I definitely think it's a net gain to rid the world of brutal dictators like we've seen under seige during the Arab Spring. That, to me, is my guiding principle.

Sometimes, the move towards republicanism throughout the Middle East will work to our favor, sometimes it will not. I believe we should support the Spring whether it does or not. The Middle East, as well as several places on earth, needs to catch up to modernity.
I wonder if the families of these dead Americans agree with you, but hey, at least it makes you feel good. Enjoy your principles.
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:27 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driver2 View Post
Better the Devil you know than the one you don't!

Is anyone paying attention? Do you notice the parallels.
We elect a weak assed Democratic fool to the presidency!
He fails to support our allie in the country in question!
The radicals attack our embassy.

Compare 1979 to 2012.
Yes, as a matter of fact, someone noticed...

Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
First an economic malaise and now an attack on the US embassy in the country of a long time ally allowed to fall to radicals. Deja vu.
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:28 AM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I wonder if the families of these dead Americans agree with you, but hey, at least it makes you feel good.
They probably don't. But I don't think it's wise to craft policy purely from the pathos of the victims of violence.
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:33 AM   #126
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The least we could have done is attempt to influence the course of Arab spring events to avoid a full blown takeover of Egypt by the Islamic Brotherhood. We had allies in the powerful military and we should have tried to help them embrace some degree of liberalization without a complete handover of power.
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:39 AM   #127
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US. Weakness in word and military power will be met with chaos and aggression by those who wish to damage the United States. In my view anything less than full throated support of freedom and our only democratic ally in Israel is a mistake.
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:47 AM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
They probably don't. But I don't think it's wise to craft policy purely from the pathos of the victims of violence.
"It doesn't have to be a good thing for us."
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:50 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Yes, as a matter of fact, someone noticed...
Sorry!
I only read the first page of the thread!

Got really pissed, at all the apologist's and justifier's.

Hopefully this will cost O Dummy and the C Rats the election. Maybe the only good thing about this Damn mess.
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:58 AM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driver2 View Post
Better the Devil you know than the one you don't!

Is anyone paying attention? Do you notice the parallels.
We elect a weak assed Democratic fool to the presidency!
He fails to support our allie in the country in question!
The radicals attack our embassy.

Compare 1979 to 2012.
It doesn't help that both "allies" were dictators that really didn't give much of a shit about their people. That kind of atmosphere fosters revolution, which in turn invites radicals to take over. All we need to do now is to f*** up Turkey and we'll get the trifecta.

One big difference: We got our people out first this time.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:06 AM   #131
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This kind of thinking will just make everything worse, and has no place in the 21st century.
So, when other people are trying to kill you, what is the correct response in the 21st century?
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:08 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
"It doesn't have to be a good thing for us."
I'm a believer in small-R republicanism, and self-determination. I believe it is a great thing for a society that does not experience those qualities to move towards them, and I definitely think it's a net gain to rid the world of brutal dictators like we've seen under seige during the Arab Spring. That, to me, is my guiding principle.

Sometimes, the move towards republicanism throughout the Middle East will work to our favor, sometimes it will not. I believe we should support the Spring whether it does or not. The Middle East, as well as several places on earth, needs to catch up to modernity.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:11 AM   #133
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IF this report is true... we are looking at two embassy attacks that obviously were coordinated and one where it appears they planned on killing a high level target.

Before anyone starts throwing blame around, please remember that the intelligence community will NEVER be able to know EVERY threat or plot out there. What matters now is how we react.

Obviously we don't know how much was known beforehand... but I expect we are scrambling to get all the information now.

From a political standpoint, I certainly hope Romney stays on the sidelines for a while and gives the current administration time to get the facts sorted before making judgments. That being said, you can NOT allow a US Ambassador to be killed without retribution of some kind. This is a complete nightmare.
Nope, he's going the hail mary, politicize the deaths of Americans route. As expected. Dude's as cravenly opportunistic as they come.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:12 AM   #134
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Since the convention speech was full of very similar positions, down to near word for word as Carter said in his convention speech, Obama can get Ole Jimmah to advise him
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:14 AM   #135
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Since the convention speech was full of very similar positions, down to near word for word as Carter said in his convention speech, Obama can get Ole Jimmah to advise him
This isn't Tehran in 1979. GFY.
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