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View Poll Results: What is an average middle class income?
$200K-$250K 1 2.22%
$150K-$200K 0 0%
$125K-$150K 3 6.67%
$100K-$150K 3 6.67%
$75K-$100K 11 24.44%
$50K-$100K 27 60.00%
More than $300K 0 0%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-14-2012, 05:30 PM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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Romey says an average middle class income is $200,000 - $250,000 true or not?

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...d-mitt-romney/

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: You know Democrats are going to be wanting to get much more detail from you on how youíre going to pay for your tax cuts. Weíve heard that at the Democratic Convention. President Clinton said your math doesnít work. I know you dispute what President Clinton said and what the Democrats that say that youíre going to have a $2,000 tax hike on middleclass families. I know you dispute that. You cite your own studies. But one of the studies you cite by Martin Feldstein at Harvard shows that to make your math work, it could work, if you eliminate the home mortgage, charity, and state and local tax deductions for everyone earning over $100,000. Is that what you propose?

MITT ROMNEY: No, thatís not what I propose. And, of course, part of my plan is to stimulate economic growth. The biggest source of getting the country to a balanced budget is not by raising taxes or by cutting spending. Itís by encouraging the growth of the economy. So my tax plan is to encourage investment in growth in America, more jobs, that means more people paying taxes. So thatís a big component of what allows us to get to a balanced budget.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: But his study, which youíve cited, says it can only work if you take away those deductions for everyone earning more than $100,000.

MITT ROMNEY: Well, it doesnít necessarily show the same growth that weíre anticipating. And I havenít seen his precise study. But I can tell you that we can lower our ratesĖ

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, you cited the study, though.

MITT ROMNEY: Well, I said that there are five different studies that point out that we can get to a balanced budget without raising taxes on middle income people. Let me tell you, George, the fundamentals of my tax policy are these. Number one, reduce tax burdens on middle-income people. So no one can say my plan is going to raise taxes on middle-income people, because principle number one is keep the burden down on middle-income taxpayers.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: Is $100,000 middle income?

MITT ROMNEY: No, middle income is $200,000 to $250,000 and less. So number one, donít reduceĖ or excuse me, donít raise taxes on middle-income people, lower them. Number two, donít reduce the share of taxes paid by the wealthiest. The top 5% will still pay the same share of taxes they pay today. Thatís principle one, principle two. Principle three is create incentives for growth, make it easier for businesses to start and to add jobs. And finally, simplify the code, make it easier for people to pay their taxes than the way they have to now.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:23 PM   #61
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You guys do realize he is essentially saying under 200k right? Two ppl making 100k i wouldn't call rich and hes including those way under that
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:26 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BWillie007 View Post
You guys do realize he is essentially saying under 200k right? Two ppl making 100k i wouldn't call rich and hes including those way under that
Two people... 100k each? I'd call that upper middle class/rich.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:26 PM   #63
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It's an interesting discussion.

Imagine having an extra 1k per month in take home pay. Many of your costs are stable, so that gives you an extra $500 per month for a car payment and another $500 for your mortgage. That makes for a nice car and a bigger house.

And that's only a $20k increase in gross wages. And people are talking about a window that varies by as much as $150k?

Yeah, that's a big window.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:35 PM   #64
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:42 PM   #65
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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This hearkens back to those statistics we read where people always say they'd be "comfortable" if they made 20% more money, regardless of what their income is. I wonder if it means that people view anyone making 20% more than them as being in a different class.
I think it would depend on where the line started.

Going from $180k to $216k a year, while awesome, doesn't change a lifestyle as much as going from $80k to $96k.

With that in mind, I think that an additional $1,000 post tax dollars a month would go a lot further for a family of four than the jump from $180k to 216k, which is somewhere around an additional $2k per month, post tax.

Of course, I'm assuming that the family of four that's bringing in $180k a year has their finances "in order".
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:44 PM   #66
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jspchief View Post
It's an interesting discussion.

Imagine having an extra 1k per month in take home pay. Many of your costs are stable, so that gives you an extra $500 per month for a car payment and another $500 for your mortgage. That makes for a nice car and a bigger house.

And that's only a $20k increase in gross wages. And people are talking about a window that varies by as much as $150k?

Yeah, that's a big window.
Even more to the point, you could keep the same car and put an additional $6k a year towards your home mortgage, which would go a long way in reducing the loan and shortening the number of years before it's paid off.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:48 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
but this thread has been great for the discussion of the overall concept of "middle class"!!
yeah as usual, you were wrong.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:51 PM   #68
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BWillie007 View Post
You guys do realize he is essentially saying under 200k right? Two ppl making 100k i wouldn't call rich and hes including those way under that
I wouldn't call that "wealthy" if you live in a city with exorbitant real estate prices but I would think that those people would be considered wealthy in places in the KC area.

Where do people earning $200k per live in the Kansas City area? Leawood? O.P.? Lenexa? Loch Lloyd? If so, aren't those people considered "rich" by those that can't afford those areas?
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:13 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post

But, the point of the thread was to see how many agree with romney, If you are making $200K-250K are you "middle class"?
JFC BRC, you've become such a shill for Obama that it's getting tiresome.

Go read the quote again. Romney didn't say the middle class is people who make between $200K and $250K. He said the middle class is people who make between $200K and $250K AND LESS. He was giving a range for the upper limit, not the range for the entire middle class. He did so because George Stephanopolous asked him if $100K is middle class, and he wanted to make the point that middle class goes higher than $100K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/m...181052583.html

So basically ... middle class stops at $250k per household for Romney.. almost the same number Obama uses. His statement certainly could have been clearer. I'd have to see the actual video to judge but it sounds like he is saying no $100k isn't the limit it's 200 or 250k and less.

Sooo. non-story.
AustinChief nailed it. You really should listen to him.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:14 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
I wouldn't call that "wealthy" if you live in a city with exorbitant real estate prices but I would think that those people would be considered wealthy in places in the KC area.

Where do people earning $200k per live in the Kansas City area? Leawood? O.P.? Lenexa? Loch Lloyd? If so, aren't those people considered "rich" by those that can't afford those areas?
That proves nothing. A homeless person would consider someone living in a tiny $50,000 house to be rich. That doesn't make the person rich.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:17 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
JFC BRC, you've become such a shill for Obama that it's getting tiresome.

Go read the quote again. Romney didn't say the middle class is people who make between $200K and $250K. He said the middle class is people who make between $200K and $250K AND LESS. He was giving a range for the upper limit, not the range for the entire middle class. He did so because George Stephanopolous asked him if $100K is middle class, and he wanted to make the point that middle class goes higher than $100K.


AustinChief nailed it. You really should listen to him.
Austin Chief is not saying the same thing you are. His point is different.

And anyone who disagrees with you is a shill or partisan quack. It may be easier to dismiss them in your mind and reinforce your poorly thought out ideals.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:18 PM   #72
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Guess I am officially poor now.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:19 PM   #73
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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That proves nothing. A homeless person would consider someone living in a tiny $50,000 house to be rich. That doesn't make the person rich.
So, you don't consider people living in Leawood or Loch Lloyd to be wealthy?

And if you re-read, Brainiac, it was a question, not a statement.

And the overwhelming majority of the homeless are mentally ill and therefore can't even perceive wealth.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:20 PM   #74
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Guess I am officially poor now.
Thats okay you live in Kansas. You dont need a living wage there. Everything is so cheap.
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Old 09-14-2012, 10:21 PM   #75
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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Guess I am officially poor now.
$250k is a lot of jack, regardless of where you live.

IMO, those numbers shouldn't even have been at the tip of Romney's tongue.

A SMART guy would have said "Yes, George, $100k or LESS".
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