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Old 09-20-2012, 11:22 AM  
Lzen Lzen is offline
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Free speech?

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Old 09-20-2012, 11:23 AM   #2
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Yes... until you cause someone trouble with their re-election.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:30 AM   #3
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First Obama gives GM to the unions and now he gives Egypt to the Muslim Brotherhood. What's next, freeing the Blind Sheik? Er...
O eyes ‘blind sheik’ release
GOPers blast idea to appease Egypt
By JOSH MARGOLIN and CHUCK BENNETT

The Obama administration is weighing the release of blind Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman — the spiritual adviser to the 1993 World Trade Center bombers — in a stunning goodwill gesture toward Egypt that has touched off a political firestorm, officials said yesterday.

The Egyptian government “asked for his release,” an administration source told The Post — and Rep. Peter King (R-LI) confirmed the request is being considered.

The White House, State Department and Justice Department each issued statements denying any deal is in the works, but, “There’s no way to believe anything they say,” said Andrew McCarthy, the former assistant US attorney who prosecuted Abdel-Rahman. “I believe there may already be a nod-and-wink agreement in place.”

Abdel-Rahman, 74, was convicted in 1995 of plotting terror attacks throughout the city and is locked away in the medical wing of the Butner Federal Correctional Institution in North Carolina.

He remains revered in his native Egypt, and his supporters have demonstrated throughout Cairo for his freedom.

Newly elected Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi, a member of the radical Muslim Brotherhood, has publicly vowed to press the United States to turn over the sightless sheik.

His incarceration was the subject of Arabic-language message-board rants two days before protesters stormed the US Embassy in Cairo and later killed the American ambassador to Libya, Christopher Stevens, according to a Department of Homeland Security report obtained by Fox News.

They wrote he should be released, “even if it requires burning the embassy down with everyone in it.”

King and other congressional Republicans sent a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder and Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, saying, “The release of Abdel-Rahman or any terrorist who plots to kill innocent Americans would be seen for what it is: a sign of weakness and a lack of resolve by the United States and its president.”

National Security Council spokesman Tommy Vietor said last night, “The blind sheik is going to serve out his life sentence. There are no discussions about transferring him. These reports are wrong.”

Justice spokesman Dean Boyd added, “Suggestions that the US government is planning to transfer or release the blind sheik to Egypt are totally false and absolutely baseless. He remains in federal prison where he is serving a life sentence for terrorism violations.”
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:35 AM   #4
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free speech is a difficult issue...

the usual thing about protecting even abhorrent speech applies...

but all rights have limits...

you can't yell fire in a crowded theater (because it endangers the other theater-goers)...

maybe you shouldn't take a stick and poke it in the eyes of muslims when it clearly endangers lives...

like inciting a riot, maybe profoundly insulting anti-muslim speech should be subject to limits...

who knows?
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:44 AM   #5
KC_Lee KC_Lee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
free speech is a difficult issue...

the usual thing about protecting even abhorrent speech applies...

but all rights have limits...

you can't yell fire in a crowded theater (because it endangers the other theater-goers)...

maybe you shouldn't take a stick and poke it in the eyes of muslims when it clearly endangers lives...

like inciting a riot, maybe profoundly insulting anti-muslim speech should be subject to limits...

who knows?
So would Christians be justified on rioting in the streets over the Piss Jesus "art" piece?

Do we make sure we frame our speech in way that it never offends anyone?
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:45 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
free speech is a difficult issue...

the usual thing about protecting even abhorrent speech applies...

but all rights have limits...

you can't yell fire in a crowded theater (because it endangers the other theater-goers)...

maybe you shouldn't take a stick and poke it in the eyes of muslims when it clearly endangers lives...

like inciting a riot, maybe profoundly insulting anti-muslim speech should be subject to limits...

who knows?
C'mon my portly Whiffenpoof, you were better educated than that.

You can't yell fire in a crowded theater because rapid egress in the face of deadly conditions is a rational response.

Fear of death is not the same as anger over being insulted.

We can and should burden people with the restraint to not reply to anger over insults with murder.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:45 AM   #7
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King and other congressional Republicans sent a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder and Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, saying, “The release of Abdel-Rahman or any terrorist who plots to kill innocent Americans would be seen for what it is: a sign of weakness and a lack of resolve by the United States and its president.
**** an A!
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Lee View Post
So would Christians be justified on rioting in the streets over the Piss Jesus "art" piece?

Do we make sure we frame our speech in way that it never offends anyone?
no-one is suggesting that muslim rage over what they consider blasphemy is justified, so ms. pea brain would call that first point a strawman...

and, never offending anyone is also a strawman because i'm not talking about offending anyone...

i'm describing violence and death caused by intentionally inflammatory and inciting speech...

the question is should going so far as to incite deadly violence be protected under our laws?

i think there's a case to be made that such speech shouldn't be protected...
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:36 PM   #9
blaise blaise is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
free speech is a difficult issue...

the usual thing about protecting even abhorrent speech applies...

but all rights have limits...

you can't yell fire in a crowded theater (because it endangers the other theater-goers)...

maybe you shouldn't take a stick and poke it in the eyes of muslims when it clearly endangers lives...

like inciting a riot, maybe profoundly insulting anti-muslim speech should be subject to limits...

who knows?
Making that video isn't the same as yelling fire in a theater. We shouldn't think that riots and murder are reasonable reactions to a video, and cater to people that do.
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
no-one is suggesting that muslim rage over what they consider blasphemy is justified, so ms. pea brain would call that first point a strawman...

and, never offending anyone is also a strawman because i'm not talking about offending anyone...

i'm describing violence and death caused by intentionally inflammatory and inciting speech...

the question is should going so far as to incite deadly violence be protected under our laws?

i think there's a case to be made that such speech shouldn't be protected...
So, if some Christians start rioting every time Bill Maher ridicules Christians should we take him off the air?
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaise View Post
So, if some Christians start rioting every time Bill Maher ridicules Christians should we take him off the air?
I'm all for taking Bill Maher off the air anyway necessary...... that guy is a fkn douchebag.
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaise View Post
So, if some Christians start rioting every time Bill Maher ridicules Christians should we take him off the air?
I think they may have to go kill a diplomat first.
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
no-one is suggesting that muslim rage over what they consider blasphemy is justified, so ms. pea brain would call that first point a strawman...

and, never offending anyone is also a strawman because i'm not talking about offending anyone...

i'm describing violence and death caused by intentionally inflammatory and inciting speech...

the question is should going so far as to incite deadly violence be protected under our laws?

i think there's a case to be made that such speech shouldn't be protected...
So you really think the movie in question is worthy of a violent reaction?
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Old 09-20-2012, 12:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
the question is should going so far as to incite deadly violence be protected under our laws?

i think there's a case to be made that such speech shouldn't be protected...
Voicing an opinion, or a satirization, or a parody, or even a criticism of somebody's religious beliefs isn't inciting violence. That's their problem, not the speaker.
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Old 09-20-2012, 01:01 PM   #15
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My thoughts:

Yes, it's free speech, unless it was foreseeable that releasing his trailer/film/whatever would cause the riots it did - whether people should react violently to religious offense isn't the question (hint: no, of course they shouldn't), it's whether it was predictable that they would. Personally, I don't think that the riots and embassy-stormings and ambassador-killings were foreseeable. If the extreme reaction wasn't even expected by the State Department, it's not really foreseeable to a two-bit con man releasing a cheap trashy video, either.

However, it will be for the next guy.

In answer to Megyn Kelly's question, they had that many cops there at least in part to protect him. I think in custody is the safest place for this guy. Plus, her report is so obviously slanted, even for FOX; you can hear the disdain in her supposedly-impartial fair-and-balanced professional-journalist voice.

I do agree with the Hyperventilating Overexcited Guy, though - I'm not convinced that it was the video that primarily caused the riots anyway, making the whole point moot.

Also, holy cow, Megyn Kelly is 41 and has two children. I would never have guessed her that old.
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