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Old 09-20-2012, 05:39 PM  
AustinChief AustinChief is online now
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America becoming more like Europe? I WISH!

*EDITED for Cosmo and his ilk...*

Sadly, the discourse in America has become one of apology and appeasement. Things I have come to expect from Europe. YET while we have articles like this...

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/sep...dment-20120918

There are brave Europeans who are pushing back on the bullying, ignorant fanatics in the Middle East...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/20/wo...mmad.html?_r=0

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-857005.html

When people in FRANCE and Germany are putting us to shame in the free speech arena... we have serious issues here at home.

BTW.. this fits perfectly with my idea that our best course of action is to FLOOD the media with insulting anti-radical Islam images and videos over the next few months. (hell, every day for the next year) After a while the outrage and idiocy will simply burn itself out.

On the other hand, if we continue to kowtow and apologize appease and tiptoe around these assholes... we only invite further problems.

Last edited by AustinChief; 09-20-2012 at 06:04 PM..
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:38 PM   #16
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No you ****ing moron... but the constant apologies for the video coming from the highest levels of our government is appeasement. It VALIDATES their outrage, even if we say "there is no excuse for the violence" after we have stressed how wrong the video is. STRESS how wrong they are and then if asked, say the video is garbage but then AGAIN stress that it is irrelevant because free speech is paramount. That is the EXACT opposite of the tone I have seen coming from this administration and from most of the media.

The article just shows that there are far too many here in America who are willing to bend over and take it up the ass from radicals because they are afraid of them.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Also, did/do you support the Patriot Act?
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:39 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by KC native View Post
Also, did/do you support the Patriot Act?
HELL NO!!!!
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:40 PM   #18
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Oh my bad, I just thought the people were represented by their govts and passed those laws with their permission.

I'll say one last thing. I don't think your idea is rational. Freedom comes with responsibility. So if you want to incite and flame for more violence, even if it's legal, doesn't make it the right choice.
It's more about declaring that we absolutely will follow the laws of our own country in protecting our citizens, and that we will not allow their freedoms to be denied by a foreign power. This is our culture. This is one of the ideas that our nation was founded on.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:41 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by KC native View Post
So covert operations in Iran, constant drone strikes, and assassinations in countries where our military isn't even supposed to be operating equals appeasement to you?
Once again, your reading comprehension skills fail you. I don't think our ACTIONS represent appeasement (for the most part) our REPRESENTATION and TONE does. THAT is what disgusts me. Yes, if we were also appeasing them in DEED instead of just words then I would be even more upset, but I don't think anyone but the FURTHEST left American would condone that.

How we REPRESENT ourselves in this regard DOES matter.. no amount of drone strikes in Pakistan will change that.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:42 PM   #20
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
I am ANGRY over the tone and representation coming from the administration and some of the media which is one of appeasement. Not appeasing the violence but appeasing the insult. VALIDATING them.
I don't see how denouncing what is considered by some to be hate speech is appeasement.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:43 PM   #21
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Exactly. I hate the fact that it would insult the moderates of many different religions but that is a cost I think is worth paying to take the fight to the radicals.
Yes, it would. I recall an artwork depicting Jesus, on the cross, in piss. I can see how that would offend people. But they don't have the right not to be offended.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:43 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
It's more about declaring that we absolutely will follow the laws of our own country in protecting our citizens, and that we will not allow their freedoms to be denied by a foreign power. This is our culture. This is one of the ideas that our nation was founded on.
Are you referring to that international law on this? I don't support that idea either. It violates our sovereignty. That doesn't mean freedom doesn't come with responsibility because it does. Lots of stupid or bad things are legal.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:43 PM   #23
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Once again, your reading comprehension skills fail you.
So you're mad over something purely symbolic.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:44 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by KC native View Post
Also, did/do you support the Patriot Act?
I RAILED against it at the time and still do. Until Obama's recent Executive power grabs I saw it as one of the biggest threats to freedom in my lifetime... and it's still right up at the top (even if it did go through proper legislative approval).

No one will ever be able to convince me the Patriot Act was a net positive for our country. And you are 1000% correct in bringing it up, because it is a perfect example of giving up rights for (apparent) safety. Disgusting in every way.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:45 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
So you're mad over something purely symbolic.
Since you aren't 12 years old, I will hold you accountable on this... YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER. It is far more than symbolic. That assertion is ridiculous and shows a distinct lack of understanding of how the world works.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:46 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Since you aren't 12 years old, I will hold you accountable on this... YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER. It is far more than symbolic. That assertion is ridiculous and shows a distinct lack of understanding of how the world works.
I don't see how denouncing what is considered by some to be hate speech is appeasement.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:47 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Are you referring to that international law on this? I don't support that idea either. It violates our sovereignty. That doesn't mean freedom doesn't come with responsibility because it does. Lots of stupid or bad things are legal.
Yeah, because that is what is being pushed here. It exemplifies a belief that non Muslim countries have to follow Muslim law. I would suggest that a Catholic Bishop sit down with the clerics (I presume that they are clerics) and hammer out some Christian laws that Muslims can be forced to follow in their own countries. We'll call that a starting point. Let's see if they are willing to do that.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:49 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I don't see how denouncing what is considered by some to be hate speech is appeasement.
When you place the focus on the denouncement and on the video.. you VALIDATE their anger. Instead that should be an afterthought and the focus FIRST AND LAST should be on the principle of Free Speech and THEIR FAILINGS in understanding and respecting it. That is NOT the tone we have have put out there and only the most BLIND partisan would pretend otherwise.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:51 PM   #29
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Yes, it would. I recall an artwork depicting Jesus, on the cross, in piss. I can see how that would offend people. But they don't have the right not to be offended.
Andres Serrano work Piss Christ was actually more serious art than that Muslim movie which was amateurish. The latter had one purpose in mind. ( There are interests in this country that want the two sides of this war inflamed for their own purposes due to failing support for more war.) But Serrano does outrageous art exhibitions. One was on shit and titled "Shit." It was photos of all kinds of crap in different locations. He's free to do that but that's just his kind of art.

Let's look at what happened regarding Piss Christ. It was attacked on two separate times. Torn off the wall and kicked. The guy did get a suspended jail term for it. The other was by two teenagers using a decoy action to use a hammer 8 times on it.

"The gallery director subsequently closed the exhibition in order, he claimed to protect the safety of the gallery and its staff. "

A CC " attempted to procure an injunction to stop the show going ahead on the basis that the work was blasphemous. "

http://www.artcrimes.net/piss-christ
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:52 PM   #30
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I don't see how denouncing what is considered by some to be hate speech is appeasement.
Are you referring to comments directed at Mohammed and Islam?
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