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Old 09-25-2012, 10:33 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Voting laws may deter 10 million Hispanics, report says

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...2_story_1.html

Voting laws may deter 10 million Hispanics, report says
By Krissah Thompson
Published: September 22

Civil rights groups are warning that as many as 10 million Hispanics may be deterred from casting ballots because of changes to voting laws.

In a report to be released Monday, the civil rights group Advancement Project cites the potential impact of newly restrictive photo identification laws, proof-of-citizenship requirements and late efforts in a few states to remove noncitizens from the voter rolls.

“It has the impact of scaring people and reminding them of [immigration] raids and other kinds of law enforcement that have been targeted toward these communities,” said Penda D. Hair, a co-director of the Advancement Project, part of a coalition of liberal groups that oppose the new voting laws.

Proponents of the efforts to tighten voting laws, including several secretaries of state, say they want to root out voter fraud and are not targeting particular demographic groups.

“The fact is our office only compared our voter rolls against DMV records where individuals showed proof of non-citizenship,” Rich Coolidge, spokesman for the Colorado secretary of state’s office, said in an e-mail. “To insinuate anything else is absolutely false and reckless. Unfortunately, some partisan groups attempt to leverage this effort for their own political gain.”

In-person voting fraud is rare, studies have shown, but there have been recent cases of absentee ballot fraud, and small numbers of noncitizens are registered to vote. In Colorado, the secretary of state’s office estimated last year that as many as 11,000 noncitizens were registered to vote. But after checking a federal immigration database, the state announced this month that 141 noncitizens were registered and as few as 35 had cast ballots.

Several of the states with more restrictive laws and procedures, such as Colorado, have large Hispanic populations. As the deadline to register voters approaches in many states, the Advancement Project’s report warns that the new rules are working against efforts to register Hispanics, the nation’s fastest-growing demographic.

Both President Obama and Republican nominee Mitt Romney are working hard to appeal to Hispanics, who could be key to winning important swing states if they turn out to vote in large numbers.

Advocacy groups have been trying for several years to increase the number of Latinos who vote. In 2010, 6.3 million Latinos who were eligible to vote reported that they were unregistered and 10.8 million said they did not vote, according to census figures cited by the report.

“At the end of the day, voting should be free, fair and accessible, and these barriers are standing in the way of an increasing demographic in this country,” said Judith A. Browne-Dianis, a co-director of the Advancement Project.

A dozen state legislatures passed rules last year requiring voters to present state-issued photo IDs, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures, although in four states the laws were vetoed by Democratic governors.

Pennsylvania’s governor signed a voter ID bill in March that is still being litigated, with opponents presenting studies showing that blacks, Hispanics and others in urban areas are less likely to have the required ID.

In addition, 16 states — including Colorado, Florida and New Mexico — have attempted to “purge” noncitizens from registration lists. The Advancement Project cited examples of purges incorrectly flagging the names of naturalized citizens, putting them at risk for having their voter registration invalidated.

Florida halted an effort to remove noncitizens from lists when it became known that the database used by the state to check citizenship was out of date.

Denver resident Veronica Figoli, who immigrated from Venezuela in 1999, was among the legally registered voters in Colorado whose name was flagged for removal from voter rolls. The letter that she received said it was “extremely important” that she affirm her citizenship or withdraw from the voter rolls, which she said made her feel like a “second-class citizen.”

“To get this letter was kind of insulting,” said Figoli, who became a citizen in 2011 after what she said was a costly and stressful process. “There are so many steps and it is so confusing, and it’s expensive. And you are dealing with government and that makes you uncomfortable.” When she got the letter, she said, “I questioned myself.”

Figoli returned the required paperwork but said that others might be more fearful.

“I have a friend who said, ‘I wouldn’t do anything. . . . What if they revoke my citizenship?’ ” Figoli said. “The fear is there.”

Melinda Aguirre, who was born in Denver, also received a letter in English and Spanish questioning her citizenship. “I don’t even speak Spanish,” she said. “It’s just a bunch of [bull] what they are doing with certain people. My mom didn’t get this letter. My brother didn’t get this letter. Their last name is Roybal. But the Aguirres did.”

John Fund, a conservative columnist and author of “Stealing Elections: How Voter Fraud Threatens Our Democracy,” said recent polls show that advocates of cleaning up the voter rolls have public opinion on their side and that they are being unfairly accused of racism. “It is very unfortunate that this issue has been used by groups who want to yell racism in a crowded political theater,” Fund said. “This is not the way to debate these issues.”

Still, the National Council of La Raza, which has been working with a network of groups to register Hispanic voters, was one of a dozen civil rights groups that said last week that voting rights are in a “state of emergency.”

“Part of our frustration is that the debate over the voter integrity process has become a polarized thing,” said Clarissa Martinez De Castro, the group’s director of immigration and national campaigns. “It’s almost like voters have become guilty until proven innocent.”

Ana Navarro, a Republican campaign consultant in Florida, said she doesn’t expect Hispanics there to be dissuaded from registering or voting.

“I don’t get the sense that the average voter is out there ready to set their hair on fire over the voting law changes,” she said in an e-mail. “Political campaigns are in full swing in Florida and there’s just too many substantive issues like the economy, high unemployment, Medicare, and housing, that Floridians are worried about. . . . Ready or not, whether you like or dislike the changes to the process, voting is upon us.”

Floridians start getting absentee ballots in a couple of weeks, and in most states, voter registration closes 30 days before the election.
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:14 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
My argument is that the current voter registration laws that we have on the books are the effective minimum.

Voter ID cards are an unnecessary addition.



The current registration laws.
how does that ensure someone is who they say are on election day
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:21 PM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Read this thread or this thread.

Look up my posts. I've already been down that path extensively.
You still conveniently ignore your own posted study which said...

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...&postcount=299
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:24 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
how does that ensure someone is who they say are on election day
Because the registration process is very reliable.

It is constructed to be and has proven to be.
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:26 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
You still conveniently ignore your own posted study which said...

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...&postcount=299
This is the precise point from that study that underscores my concern:

Quote:
However, counties with higher Hispanic and Asian-American populations saw a small negative effect on voter turnout as ID laws were tightened. Greater household income positively correlated with voter turnout.
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:31 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Because the registration process is very reliable.

It is constructed to be and has proven to be.
In missouri they mail you a piece of paper with no picture on it. I show them that piece of paper and I get to vote. Who's to say I didn't steal that piece of paper and vote for them?
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:34 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
This is the precise point from that study that underscores my concern:
Now provide proof that every one of those who turned out before ID was required was a LEGAL voter. What? You can't? Maybe there was widespread fraud before. A voter ID law WILL cause some people not to vote.. no questions there... some people who do not have the LEGAL right to vote. That is kind of the point. To claim it disenfranchises the poor or all minorities has been proven false. The study shows that. Therefore the logical conclusion is that it suppressed the votes that it was MEANT to.. you know, the invalid ones.
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:45 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
In missouri they mail you a piece of paper with no picture on it. I show them that piece of paper and I get to vote. Who's to say I didn't steal that piece of paper and vote for them?
I'm not arguing it's a flawless system. I'm arguing that it's a system that suffers from an astonishingly low amount of impersonation fraud.

The Republicans who pushed the Voter ID law in Pennsylvania themselves argued the Voter ID law would not have stopped any of the instances of fraud that they discovered.

Basically the entire argument for Voter IDs is:

1. There's no proof voter fraud happens on a remotely serious scale,
2. but even though there's proof it almost never happens, that data cannot be trusted,
3. so to stop it, we must institute an obstacle
4. that could only stop less than 1% of the problem
5. and if it happens to sideline thousands or even millions of voters, they did not deserve to vote.
6. The fact that traditional Democratic constituencies would be sidelined, and Republicans are the ones instituting this policy, is to be ignored.

I reject that argument, on both practical and moral principles.
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:47 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Now provide proof that every one of those who turned out before ID was required was a LEGAL voter. What? You can't? Maybe there was widespread fraud before. A voter ID law WILL cause some people not to vote.. no questions there... some people who do not have the LEGAL right to vote. That is kind of the point. To claim it disenfranchises the poor or all minorities has been proven false. The study shows that. Therefore the logical conclusion is that it suppressed the votes that it was MEANT to.. you know, the invalid ones.
Um, actually it suggests that's exactly the case.
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:55 PM   #159
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maybe voter id requirements will keep the dip shit obama voters like the one's interviewed on Howard Sterns from showing up.
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:57 PM   #160
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Just for clarity. How many hispanics do we have? 10 million is a lot of bodies
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:03 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Um, actually it suggests that's exactly the case.
no, that is exactly what it doesn;t show. otherwise the same results would have shown up for blacks... which it did not.. or other minorities... which it did not.

You could infer that it only affected minorities with substantial immigrant populations. Of course, that is a demographic that is being accused of illegal voting so of course that fits.
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:07 PM   #162
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no, that is exactly what it doesn;t show. otherwise the same results would have shown up for blacks... which it did not.. or other minorities... which it did not.

You could infer that it only affected minorities with substantial immigrant populations. Of course, that is a demographic that is being accused of illegal voting so of course that fits.
It also fits that they were disenfranchised.
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:15 PM   #163
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"small negative effect on voter turnout"

"small"

Small like millions?
Small like the small amount of voter fraud?
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:27 PM   #164
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So Pennsylvania could have 89k people without proper id per your link.

Isn't that like 1% of their voting age population?
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:20 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jspchief View Post
So Pennsylvania could have 89k people without proper id per your link.

Isn't that like 1% of their voting age population?
It is, I believe. That's the GOP's estimation, though.

Other estimations have it somewhere around 10%.
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