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Old 10-01-2012, 08:19 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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"No daylight between the United States and Israel."

From the dancing horse's mouth.



As I've written before:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
And the melding of the Likud and the GOP is now complete.

We have ourselves now a transnational political party. Any light that existed between these two organizations is now gone.

The GOP, at least its foreign policy wing, is officially led by Benjamin Netanyahu. If it hadn't been already for years, which I suspect it has.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...333633994.html

Mitt Romney: A New Course for the Middle East
Restore the three sinews of American influence: our economic strength, our military strength and the strength of our values.
By MITT ROMNEY
September 30, 2012, 6:09 p.m. ET

Disturbing developments are sweeping across the greater Middle East. In Syria, tens of thousands of innocent people have been slaughtered. In Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood has come to power, and the country's peace treaty with Israel hangs in the balance. In Libya, our ambassador was murdered in a terrorist attack. U.S. embassies throughout the region have been stormed in violent protests. And in Iran, the ayatollahs continue to move full tilt toward nuclear-weapons capability, all the while promising to annihilate Israel.

These developments are not, as President Obama says, mere "bumps in the road." They are major issues that put our security at risk.

Yet amid this upheaval, our country seems to be at the mercy of events rather than shaping them. We're not moving them in a direction that protects our people or our allies.

And that's dangerous. If the Middle East descends into chaos, if Iran moves toward nuclear breakout, or if Israel's security is compromised, America could be pulled into the maelstrom.

We still have time to address these threats, but it will require a new strategy toward the Middle East.

The first step is to understand how we got here. Since World War II, America has been the leader of the Free World. We're unique in having earned that role not through conquest but through promoting human rights, free markets and the rule of law. We ally ourselves with like-minded countries, expand prosperity through trade and keep the peace by maintaining a military second to none.

But in recent years, President Obama has allowed our leadership to atrophy. Our economy is stuck in a "recovery" that barely deserves the name. Our national debt has risen to record levels. Our military, tested by a decade of war, is facing devastating cuts thanks to the budgetary games played by the White House. Finally, our values have been misapplied—and misunderstood—by a president who thinks that weakness will win favor with our adversaries.

By failing to maintain the elements of our influence and by stepping away from our allies, President Obama has heightened the prospect of conflict and instability. He does not understand that an American policy that lacks resolve can provoke aggression and encourage disorder.

The Middle East is a case in point. The Arab Spring presented an opportunity to help move millions of people from oppression to freedom. But it also presented grave risks. We needed a strategy for success, but the president offered none. And now he seeks to downplay the significance of the calamities of the past few weeks.

The same incomprehension afflicts the president's policy toward Israel. The president began his term with the explicit policy of creating "daylight" between our two countries. He recently downgraded Israel from being our "closest ally" in the Middle East to being only "one of our closest allies." It's a diplomatic message that will be received clearly by Israel and its adversaries alike. He dismissed Israel's concerns about Iran as mere "noise" that he prefers to "block out." And at a time when Israel needs America to stand with it, he declined to meet with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

In this period of uncertainty, we need to apply a coherent strategy of supporting our partners in the Middle East—that is, both governments and individuals who share our values.

This means restoring our credibility with Iran. When we say an Iranian nuclear-weapons capability—and the regional instability that comes with it—is unacceptable, the ayatollahs must be made to believe us.

It means placing no daylight between the United States and Israel. And it means using the full spectrum of our soft power to encourage liberty and opportunity for those who have for too long known only corruption and oppression. The dignity of work and the ability to steer the course of their lives are the best alternatives to extremism.

But this Middle East policy will be undermined unless we restore the three sinews of our influence: our economic strength, our military strength and the strength of our values. That will require a very different set of policies from those President Obama is pursuing.

The 20th century became an American Century because we were steadfast in defense of freedom. We made the painful sacrifices necessary to defeat totalitarianism in all of its guises. To defend ourselves and our allies, we paid the price in treasure and in soldiers who never came home.

Our challenges are different now, but if the 21st century is to be another American Century, we need leaders who understand that keeping the peace requires American strength in all of its dimensions.
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:19 AM   #2
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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It's worth revisiting this conversation from a month or two ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
There is a tangible difference between supporting Israel's right to exist and supporting all of Israel's interests at the same level as our own, and even supporting them as more important than our own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I must have missed who says that our needs are always the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
AIPAC.

The Likud.

The Republican Party.

Christian conservatives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Sure. But they aren't always in lock-step with Israel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I fail to see any meaningful light between any of those four bodies and Israel. (Well, three bodies, since the Likud actually run Israel right now.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Then you have blinders on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
My ears are wide open for an education.
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I'm specifically referring to the GOP. If you really believe that, I think we are done.
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
You can mount a defense of the GOP, if you so wish.

I don't envy you for the task.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I didn't make the accusation. You did. Back it up with facts or retract it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I can't locate a single legitimate bit of difference between the GOP's positions and the Likud's. Can you?

They both pay lip service to the two-state solution. The GOP enables the settlements that the Likud creates. Both constantly talk about Palestinian terror. Neither talk, ever, about Israeli terror. Both believe the '67 lines are now hogwash. Both ignore the effect the settlements and treatment of Gaza inflame Islamic extremism throughout the Middle East. Etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
That isn't what you stated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Those things are all evidence of the fact that the GOP and the Likud believe there is no meaningful difference between the two countries, and that the GOP will treat the interests of Israel as paramount, even if it is detrimental to our interests. That's what I claimed, you asked for evidence, there's some evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
You claimed that (as an example) Likud and the GOP always want the same thing. Did you not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I'd say they believe the interests of Israel are either as great or greater than that of the United States. And that as a result, both parties have the same platforms on all significant issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Again, that isn't what you claimed and stated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Sure it is. My position has never been that they are down-the-line identical, just that the few differences they do have aren't remotely important.

On anything remotely consequential, the GOP and Likud are one in the same. Occasionally to the detriment of the GOP's own country.

If I've been inarticulate or you've misunderstood me at any point in this thread, there it is. That's what I believe and what I'm arguing.
If I wasn't vindicated before, I'm vindicated now.

A Romney administration will have its Middle East policy dictated by Benjamin Netanyahu and the Likud.
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Old 10-01-2012, 08:38 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
It's worth revisiting this conversation from a month or two ago.

If I wasn't vindicated before, I'm vindicated now.

A Romney administration will have its Middle East policy dictated by Benjamin Netanyahu and the Likud.
And the Sun will come out tomorrow, just like clockwork. I'm surprised anyone would doubt that.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:03 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
It's worth revisiting this conversation from a month or two ago.

...

If I wasn't vindicated before, I'm vindicated now.

A Romney administration will have its Middle East policy dictated by Benjamin Netanyahu and the Likud.
Your failure of logic is impressive even for an Obama supporter. Nothing about this speech suggests that Netanyahu or any Israeli would dictate policy to the US.

That was a great statement. The Obama administration has been a huge failure when it comes to middle east policy. And they've exacerbated the problems by hiding behind the bushes for the past few months waiting for the election to pass so that they are free to do whatever it is that they really want to do (but won't say because they fear the electoral consequences). That is, if they even have any policy ideas at all to address the mess they've helped create.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:34 AM   #5
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Your failure of logic is impressive even for an Obama supporter. Nothing about this speech suggests that Netanyahu or any Israeli would dictate policy to the US.

That was a great statement. The Obama administration has been a huge failure when it comes to middle east policy. And they've exacerbated the problems by hiding behind the bushes for the past few months waiting for the election to pass so that they are free to do whatever it is that they really want to do (but won't say because they fear the electoral consequences). That is, if they even have any policy ideas at all to address the mess they've helped create.
This post is just a series of conclusions with no supporting premises.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:40 AM   #6
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Austin Chief may want to consider switching Direckshun's posting privileges from the Everything Data plan to something a little more regulated. At least until they can get Direck's meds properly adjusted.
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Old 10-01-2012, 10:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
This post is just a series of conclusions with no supporting premises.
Kind of like your life...
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:35 AM   #8
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Well, it certainly can't be any worse than the current mideast policy. It's safe to see it's been a complete disaster.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:38 AM   #9
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Which one is pitching?
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
This post is just a series of conclusions with no supporting premises.
The first paragraph is premised on the fact that "correlation proves causation" is a logical fallacy. I wouldn't have thought that needed to be spelled out.

The second paragraph is pretty self evident as well and I'll leave it up to anyone who reads it to judge the merits of the conclusions listed.
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:26 PM   #11
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The first paragraph is premised on the fact that "correlation proves causation" is a logical fallacy. I wouldn't have thought that needed to be spelled out.

The second paragraph is pretty self evident as well and I'll leave it up to anyone who reads it to judge the merits of the conclusions listed.
Again, no supporting premises.

Introduce something to the conversation, or stick to platitudes. But don't pretend you're doing the former when you're just swimming in the latter.
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:12 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Again, no supporting premises.

Introduce something to the conversation, or stick to platitudes. But don't pretend you're doing the former when you're just swimming in the latter.


Thanks for posting that fantastic article. It's a refreshing change from the rudderless mishmash that this administration considers a foreign policy. Your silly commentary and delusional self back-patting are less welcome.
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:27 PM   #13
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post


Thanks for posting that fantastic article. It's a refreshing change from the rudderless mishmash that this administration considers a foreign policy. Your silly commentary and delusional self back-patting are less welcome.
I'm hearing windchimes.
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:28 PM   #14
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I'm hearing windchimes.
Is that what you call the voices now?
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:32 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I'm hearing windchimes.
Are you sure that isn't the Adhan?
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