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Old 10-01-2012, 09:17 PM  
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The Primary Flaw with Romeo's 2-Gap

A few have been asking "Why don't we switch to a 4-3" and most have been like myself and have been campaigning for a switch to the 1-gap.

Now, Direckshun has posted a nice breakdown of the difference between the two philosophies, and I'll link that later.

However, the 2-gap isn't a completely flawed scheme. To run it effectively in today's NFL, you need to have DEs like Tyson/Dorsey who are solid against the run but also can diagnose run vs. pass quickly and then provide an adequate pass rush (pushing the pocket or obtaining a double team while still progressing upfield).

For example, the Ravens and Mike Nolan (D-Coordinator for the Falcons) still run a 2-gap philosophy. (Nolan runs a hybrid 3-4 2-gap and a 4-3, but I can talk about that later).The difference is that while the Ravens run the 2-gap (albeit, having their DEs play the 4-tech instead of our 5), they utilize a fire-zone heavy concept. Meaning, they will pull DEs into coverage occasionally and bring pressure from safeties, nickel and dime backs. Their philosophy is to "Rush 5, drop 6".

For those that think our Defense sucks, you're entitled to your opinion but it is wrong. To those that think the 2-gap entirely sucks, you're wrong as well. The main problem with this defense IMO is the inability to get pressure from our base front (3-4 odd, DEs playing the 5-tech). To play our scheme effectively, you need smart DEs who can address the play quickly and accordingly. Simply put, our DEs are not smart enough or talented enough to do so in our base front. Granted, Allan Bailey is fine from our sub package (playing the 3-tech), but can't be relied on in our base front because he doesn't play well against the run or quickly diagnoses run v. pass enough to provide an adequate rush, much like our other DEs.

I know most will just see a wall of text, but this will probably help several understand some of our defensive flaws and why we struggle against the pass in our base set.

Cliffs:
1. Our 2-gap requires players we have not acquired; it can still be effective but is much more difficult to do than a 1-gap philosophy.
2. The responsibilities for a 2-gap DE and NT are much more difficult than those of a 1-gap.
3. I personally would like to see our team go to a 1-gap. Attacking defensive lineman are much better served than run-stoppers in today's NFL.

I know most will tl;dr, but if you disagree with it, post your thoughts. We have too much bitching on this site and not enough discussion about scheme, football philosophies, and concepts.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:12 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by T-post Tom View Post
Bring back the Falcon. Or stop pounding square pegs into round holes:

1. Tyson Jackson - LSU: 4-3 LDE
2. Glenn Dorsey - LSU: 4-3 DT
3. Tamba Hali - PSU: 4-3 LDE (Some say undersized for NFL 4-3 DE. I disagree.)
4. Dontari Poe - Memphis: 4-3 Nose Tackle
I don't know what you mean. If you want T-Jackson as our LDE in a 4-3, then you know nothing about football.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:12 PM   #17
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I mean that as nicely as can be, btw.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:13 PM   #18
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Not completely relevant, but I thought Poe played very well on Sunday. He was consistently pushing his guy into the backfield.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-post Tom View Post
Bring back the Falcon. Or stop pounding square pegs into round holes:

1. Tyson Jackson - LSU: 4-3 LDE
2. Glenn Dorsey - LSU: 4-3 DT
3. Tamba Hali - PSU: 4-3 LDE (Some say undersized for NFL 4-3 DE. I disagree.)
4. Dontari Poe - Memphis: 4-3 Nose Tackle
Where would Houston go in this scenario?
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:14 PM   #20
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He has been underwhelming this year, especially for what I had expected out of him. However, he was directly responsible for Houston's game against NO. Watch the tape, you're fine at evaluating film.
Houston was directly responsible for his game because he beat tackles one-on-one. No more, no less.

Allen Bailey is dogshit so far. He's a fun player to fantasize about but so far the fantasy far exceeds the reality. He's very below average and probably not that talented. A physical specimen with a love for raccoon burgers does not a good player make.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:14 PM   #21
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Not completely relevant, but I thought Poe played very well on Sunday. He was consistently pushing his guy into the backfield.
He's had flashes. Ironically, he looked better playing the 3-tech in our nickel package in the pre-season and looks better IMO playing the nose in our odd front in the regular season. Weird.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:16 PM   #22
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By the way, I agree that the 4-3 shit is stupid, though.

The main problem with the D is lack of talent, not scheme.

People want to believe we've built this uber roster but it's simply not true.

There's really only one good safety on the entire roster and he's gimping around like Sammy Knight.
But it seems it could be partially because the talent is being misused. Plug this team into a 1-gap 3-4 with a DL of Poe, Powe, Dorsey, and there's potential for a legit solid DL. All of those guys were once 1 gapping DL. Now being asked to eat up space.

The safety situation is bad. Routt is average. Belcher is horrible if it's a pass play... So yeah there's some holes.

DJ is inconsistent.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:16 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning View Post
A physical specimen with a love for raccoon burgers does not a good player make.
This made me LOL.

However, without Bailey, houston is probably getting help from a guard in most of those instances. If you watch the 1st game, especially after his 1st sack against Matt Ryan, you'll see that.

Not saying Bailey is a monster (though he could be IMO. I am human and do have bias on certain players). However, he's a serviceable 3-tech who can provide a push and do so while obtaining a double team.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:17 PM   #24
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But it seems it could be partially because the talent is being misused. Plug this team into a 1-gap 3-4 with a DL of Poe, Powe, Dorsey, and there's potential for a legit solid DL. All of those guys were once 1 gapping DL. Now being asked to eat up space.
Almost everyone but morons wants this team to play the 1-gap.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:20 PM   #25
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I don't know what you mean. If you want T-Jackson as our LDE in a 4-3, then you know nothing about football.
Right. Why would you draft a player to play the same position that he played in college? Makes no sense. I defer to your superior wisdom in all things football. Turn out the lights and take your bag of dicks with you when you leave.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:21 PM   #26
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You're basically telling me the offense is doubling Bailey because he's some kind of threat to beat a man one-on-one.

We know that's not true.

It has nothing to do with Bailey and more to do with the blocking scheme.

If I want to neutralize an outside pass rusher I'm not assigning a guard to double down on him, I'm putting a tight end out there. How often do you see Tamba Hali getting doubled by a tackle and a guard? Pretty much never if he's rushing to the outside.

Allen Bailey is worthless, IMO. We could find an asshole off the street to do his job.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:23 PM   #27
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Bailey has Vernon Gholston disease.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:25 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by KCrockaholic View Post
But it seems it could be partially because the talent is being misused. Plug this team into a 1-gap 3-4 with a DL of Poe, Powe, Dorsey, and there's potential for a legit solid DL. All of those guys were once 1 gapping DL. Now being asked to eat up space.

The safety situation is bad. Routt is average. Belcher is horrible if it's a pass play... So yeah there's some holes.

DJ is inconsistent.
It's possible but Dorsey is a terrible pass rusher, and Poe and Powe really haven't shown that much either. We play these guys in sub situations and they haven't pressured the quarterback. The only guys doing it are linebackers, or someone getting there because the coverage holds.

We used to sub Jackson and Dorsey in our nickel in 2009 and they sucked ass trying to get up the field.

Simply put, we have some good run defenders on the team, but really only two pass rushers, and in a passing league that's going to kill you.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:25 PM   #29
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Right. Why would you draft a player to play the same position that he played in college? Makes no sense. I defer to your superior wisdom in all things football. Turn out the lights and take your bag of dicks with you when you leave.
In college, Tyson was effective as a run-stopping 4-3 end who projected as a 5-tech/4-tech 2-gap DE who primarily focused on stopping the run.

He has no pass rush moves. He has no quickness/explosiveness of the LOS. You're telling me that a guy who lacks those skills is going to turn into a productive player playing the 7 or 9-tech in a 4-3? WTF is wrong with you? Do you know anything about football? Are you BlackBob and are going to try and convince us that Jackson would be JPP in a 3-3-5? Seriously, go **** yourself. I'm pretty positive and nice to people on this board, but if you're going to post dumb shit like that, I'll call you out. You're a ****ing moron for thinking Tyson Jackson could be an effective pass rusher in any kind of defensive scheme.
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:26 PM   #30
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Right. Why would you draft a player to play the same position that he played in college? Makes no sense. I defer to your superior wisdom in all things football. Turn out the lights and take your bag of dicks with you when you leave.
Pretty sure everyone projected him to be a 5-technique or an under tackle. He's not a good pass rusher and he's slow. Not qualities you want out of your DE.
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