Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-01-2012, 10:17 PM  
Sorter Sorter is offline
Caralho
 
Sorter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Casino cash: $13956
The Primary Flaw with Romeo's 2-Gap

A few have been asking "Why don't we switch to a 4-3" and most have been like myself and have been campaigning for a switch to the 1-gap.

Now, Direckshun has posted a nice breakdown of the difference between the two philosophies, and I'll link that later.

However, the 2-gap isn't a completely flawed scheme. To run it effectively in today's NFL, you need to have DEs like Tyson/Dorsey who are solid against the run but also can diagnose run vs. pass quickly and then provide an adequate pass rush (pushing the pocket or obtaining a double team while still progressing upfield).

For example, the Ravens and Mike Nolan (D-Coordinator for the Falcons) still run a 2-gap philosophy. (Nolan runs a hybrid 3-4 2-gap and a 4-3, but I can talk about that later).The difference is that while the Ravens run the 2-gap (albeit, having their DEs play the 4-tech instead of our 5), they utilize a fire-zone heavy concept. Meaning, they will pull DEs into coverage occasionally and bring pressure from safeties, nickel and dime backs. Their philosophy is to "Rush 5, drop 6".

For those that think our Defense sucks, you're entitled to your opinion but it is wrong. To those that think the 2-gap entirely sucks, you're wrong as well. The main problem with this defense IMO is the inability to get pressure from our base front (3-4 odd, DEs playing the 5-tech). To play our scheme effectively, you need smart DEs who can address the play quickly and accordingly. Simply put, our DEs are not smart enough or talented enough to do so in our base front. Granted, Allan Bailey is fine from our sub package (playing the 3-tech), but can't be relied on in our base front because he doesn't play well against the run or quickly diagnoses run v. pass enough to provide an adequate rush, much like our other DEs.

I know most will just see a wall of text, but this will probably help several understand some of our defensive flaws and why we struggle against the pass in our base set.

Cliffs:
1. Our 2-gap requires players we have not acquired; it can still be effective but is much more difficult to do than a 1-gap philosophy.
2. The responsibilities for a 2-gap DE and NT are much more difficult than those of a 1-gap.
3. I personally would like to see our team go to a 1-gap. Attacking defensive lineman are much better served than run-stoppers in today's NFL.

I know most will tl;dr, but if you disagree with it, post your thoughts. We have too much bitching on this site and not enough discussion about scheme, football philosophies, and concepts.
Posts: 16,216
Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 12:56 AM   #46
mcaj22 mcaj22 is offline
MVP
 
mcaj22's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2010
Casino cash: $7898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorter View Post
Yup. When you really go back through the entirety of the drafts from 2009, you start to pull your hair out.

I mean, you go through every pick as if you're the GM and think of how it played out then. There are so many picks by Pioli that he should have been fired for, it is unreal.

Granted, you're not going to hit on every pick but wow. Taking DMC and Arenas over Gronk and Graham?
uhh Pioli TRADED UP to take Moeaki over ****ing Graham

there are idiots on the board that still defend stupid crap like that for Pioli too.

All the players we could have had instead of McCluster and Arenas. Daryl Washington, Sean Lee, Navarro Bowman (the 2nd best MLBer in the game today) and Donald Butler who put a ****ing clown suit on Cassel on Sunday. The list goes on and on. Actual talented players just passed over like they wouldnt be foundation pieces.
Posts: 8,715
mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 12:58 AM   #47
Sorter Sorter is offline
Caralho
 
Sorter's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Casino cash: $13956
mcaj,

we've had this convo before. Pioli is not the talent evaluator we thought he was. Again, it is painful when you go through those drafts
Posts: 16,216
Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 01:01 AM   #48
mcaj22 mcaj22 is offline
MVP
 
mcaj22's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2010
Casino cash: $7898
well it reinforces your topic of the 2 gap in that Pioli in 4 years passed on a lot of talent that could have helped our 2 gap scheme in the draft so he could fuel his own ego/his stupid philosophies.

at this point i am convinced that hes just a stubborn elitist that thinks hes the best GM in the NFL and his way of drafting actually works and somehow was the reason Tom Brady had all that success. That's how clouded he is.
Posts: 8,715
mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 01:05 AM   #49
Sorter Sorter is offline
Caralho
 
Sorter's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Casino cash: $13956
Yup. I really, really hope somehow DeCosta comes here and shows what real 2-gap looks like. B that I mean, a 2-gap that plays today's NFL.

Admittedly, I'd like to see a 1-gap. I love that philosophy.
Posts: 16,216
Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 01:10 AM   #50
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is offline
Gonzo = Sexy Bitch
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Casino cash: $16716
Sorry, I know that I am annoyingly an apologist for Haley.

But I still look back at the 2009 draft as the clear indicator that Haley was a coach micromanaged by a stubborn GM who only knows one way to do things. Haley brought in Clancy Pendergast. Pendergast's history is in the Under scheme, which could quickly turn into 1-gap. The 1-gap, incidentally, aligns with Clark Hunt's original intention to develop Steeler football (which is zone blitz).

I really do feel that Haley, if he had his way, would have installed more of a 1-gap. If you'll recall, Haley allegedly threw an absolute shit fit when Tyson Jackson was drafted. Why do you think that is? One explanation is that Haley's Dad warned Todd about Cassel and he was pissed they didn't take a QB. I think Haley was pissed because Tyson Jackson basically put the stake in the ground that said "we're going 2-gap. Deal with it."
Posts: 21,596
chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 01:13 AM   #51
FAX FAX is offline
testing ... 1, 2, 3
 
FAX's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Tennessee
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Sorry, I know that I am annoyingly an apologist for Haley.

But I still look back at the 2009 draft as the clear indicator that Haley was a coach micromanaged by a stubborn GM who only knows one way to do things. Haley brought in Clancy Pendergast. Pendergast's history is in the Under scheme, which could quickly turn into 1-gap. The 1-gap, incidentally, aligns with Clark Hunt's original intention to develop Steeler football (which is zone blitz).

I really do feel that Haley, if he had his way, would have installed more of a 1-gap. If you'll recall, Haley allegedly threw an absolute shit fit when Tyson Jackson was drafted. Why do you think that is? One explanation is that Haley's Dad warned Todd about Cassel and he was pissed they didn't take a QB. I think Haley was pissed because Tyson Jackson basically put the stake in the ground that said "we're going 2-gap. Deal with it."
Regarding Haley and the Jackson pick ... the reports that came out afterwards stated that Haley wanted best available player with that pick (who knows who he wanted?) but was overruled by Dr. Evil and ... well, we know the rest of the story.

You may be correct about the defensive scheme idea, though. Perhaps Dr. Evil had been planning to bring Roleo in all along?

FAX
Posts: 37,639
FAX is obviously part of the inner Circle.FAX is obviously part of the inner Circle.FAX is obviously part of the inner Circle.FAX is obviously part of the inner Circle.FAX is obviously part of the inner Circle.FAX is obviously part of the inner Circle.FAX is obviously part of the inner Circle.FAX is obviously part of the inner Circle.FAX is obviously part of the inner Circle.FAX is obviously part of the inner Circle.FAX is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 01:13 AM   #52
Sorter Sorter is offline
Caralho
 
Sorter's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Casino cash: $13956
Totally agree. I am a Haley fan and think that he would have been better with a different GM.

That being said, Pendergast was horrible for the most part. Too conservative in late game situations. Horton though, would have been awesome.
Posts: 16,216
Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 01:18 AM   #53
Count Alex's Losses Count Alex's Losses is offline
Banned
 
Count Alex's Losses's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2002
Casino cash: $41122
The more shit that surfaces with this franchise, the more clear it becomes that Haley wasn't that big of a problem.

Clark Hunt should re-hire him and give him GM powers.
__________________
Better to be the bastard child of a king and his whore than to be a ****ing peasant at the shite homer trough.
Posts: 172,469
Count Alex's Losses is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Losses is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Losses is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Losses is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Losses is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Losses is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Losses is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Losses is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Losses is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Losses is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Alex's Losses is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 01:18 AM   #54
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is offline
Gonzo = Sexy Bitch
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Casino cash: $16716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorter View Post
Totally agree. I am a Haley fan and think that he would have been better with a different GM.

That being said, Pendergast was horrible for the most part. Too conservative in late game situations. Horton though, would have been awesome.
I didn't like Pendergast either. But a few things to keep in mind. He's not a 2-gap coordinator, but Pioli forced it on him. Secondly, he was a very late hire, so it's possible Haley envisioned having Pendergast coach the 4-3 Under as a transition to the next coach, who could then install a 1-gap or zone blitz.

In either event... I feel like this is a strong case that Haley wanted to run 1-gap but was overruled.
Posts: 21,596
chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.chiefzilla1501 threw an interception on a screen pass.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 01:22 AM   #55
J Diddy J Diddy is offline
One Groovy Cat
 
J Diddy's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The Pitt State baby
Casino cash: $15079
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefspants View Post
Where would Houston go in this scenario?
Thinking about trading him for a backup center
Posts: 30,731
J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.J Diddy is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 01:24 AM   #56
mcaj22 mcaj22 is offline
MVP
 
mcaj22's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2010
Casino cash: $7898
firing Chan Gailey a week before the season starts didnt do Haley any favors either.

Only for Pioli to bring his old pals with similar old head egos in the following season

so essentially 4 years of Pioli with no consistency in the offensive or defensive schemes for the player talent to adjust.
Posts: 8,715
mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.mcaj22 Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 01:24 AM
mcaj22
This message has been deleted by mcaj22.
Old 10-02-2012, 01:27 AM   #57
Sorter Sorter is offline
Caralho
 
Sorter's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Casino cash: $13956
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcaj22 View Post
firing Chan Gailey a week before the season starts didnt do Haley any favors either.

Only for Pioli to bring his old pals with similar old head egos in the following season

so essentially 4 years of Pioli with no consistency in the offensive or defensive schemes for the player talent to adjust.
I was fine with the Weiss hire. Haley was at first initially.

I truly believe that they both were at odds over Cassel and over the power Pioli had invested in both of them.
Posts: 16,216
Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 01:35 AM   #58
oRYMANo oRYMANo is offline
Starter
 
oRYMANo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oklahoma
Casino cash: $5000
Romeo tried bringing pressure on Rivers early it wasn't getting through. Battle was in pass blocking too. Chargers were ready for delay blitzes like they ran on the saints. There o-line had no problem until the second half. Which i didn't see I just know there was a few sacks in the 2nd.
Posts: 94
oRYMANo is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.oRYMANo is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 01:42 AM   #59
oRYMANo oRYMANo is offline
Starter
 
oRYMANo's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oklahoma
Casino cash: $5000
On a side note a saw several plays in a row that the chiefs NT man handled the center think it was dontari.
Posts: 94
oRYMANo is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.oRYMANo is a favorite in the douche of the year contest.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 02:21 AM   #60
T-post Tom T-post Tom is offline
10K. Well, さようなら.
 
T-post Tom's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Tokyo. Milk/Honey/Gazland
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorter View Post
In college, Tyson was effective as a run-stopping 4-3 end who projected as a 5-tech/4-tech 2-gap DE who primarily focused on stopping the run.

He has no pass rush moves. He has no quickness/explosiveness of the LOS. You're telling me that a guy who lacks those skills is going to turn into a productive player playing the 7 or 9-tech in a 4-3? WTF is wrong with you? Do you know anything about football? Are you BlackBob and are going to try and convince us that Jackson would be JPP in a 3-3-5? Seriously, go **** yourself. I'm pretty positive and nice to people on this board, but if you're going to post dumb shit like that, I'll call you out. You're a ****ing moron for thinking Tyson Jackson could be an effective pass rusher in any kind of defensive scheme.
Another know-it-all gas bag that likes to insult others but gets sand in her vagina when someone pushes back. I'm usually nice to others here, but not when their initial greeting involves telling me that I don't know shit about football. Maybe you're not as nice, positive or smart as you think you are.

I can imagine that Pioli might have been drunk on visions of Richard Seymour when he reached for Jackson at #3. But the reality for Jackson was that he never got a chance to develop as a pass rusher. He was thrust into a new position and scheme that demanded he focus on new priorities. (Like "eating blockers".) Truly a baptism by fire with high expectations for the immediate starter.

I don't see him lacking the size and athleticism to be a DE in a 4-3. Maybe not an elite pass-rushing DE you'd expect at the #3 pick. But again, who else but Pioli would have picked him that high? He would just need to improve his pass rushing techniques. And that would have been much easier if it had been emphasized and better coached from the beginning of his NFL career.

So who's to say that Jackson could not have developed into a legit 4-3 LDE if given the chance? You? You're not that smart. If you were any smarter than the rest of us idiots, you wouldn't be hanging around here debating this with me. Nobody knows for sure. I put Jackson at LDE based on the current roster and a hypothetical 4-3 scheme. I like the thought of Dorsey and Poe at DT with Hali rushing on the edge. So Jackson defaults to LDE. The Seahawks have been able to make a legit LDE out of former DT Red Bryant. I don't see why it's impossible to believe that Jackson could have been coached up to expand on his successful SEC run as a good LDE. To me, Jackson had the more plausible upside for the position. But hey, don't let me slow you down with reason and real world pragmatism.
Posts: 9,999
T-post Tom Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.T-post Tom Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.T-post Tom Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.T-post Tom Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.T-post Tom Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.T-post Tom Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.T-post Tom Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.T-post Tom Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.T-post Tom Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.T-post Tom Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.T-post Tom Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:43 AM.


This is a test for a client's site.
A new website that shows member-created construction site listings that need fill or have excess fill. Dirt Monkey @ https://DirtMonkey.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.