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Old 10-01-2012, 09:17 PM  
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The Primary Flaw with Romeo's 2-Gap

A few have been asking "Why don't we switch to a 4-3" and most have been like myself and have been campaigning for a switch to the 1-gap.

Now, Direckshun has posted a nice breakdown of the difference between the two philosophies, and I'll link that later.

However, the 2-gap isn't a completely flawed scheme. To run it effectively in today's NFL, you need to have DEs like Tyson/Dorsey who are solid against the run but also can diagnose run vs. pass quickly and then provide an adequate pass rush (pushing the pocket or obtaining a double team while still progressing upfield).

For example, the Ravens and Mike Nolan (D-Coordinator for the Falcons) still run a 2-gap philosophy. (Nolan runs a hybrid 3-4 2-gap and a 4-3, but I can talk about that later).The difference is that while the Ravens run the 2-gap (albeit, having their DEs play the 4-tech instead of our 5), they utilize a fire-zone heavy concept. Meaning, they will pull DEs into coverage occasionally and bring pressure from safeties, nickel and dime backs. Their philosophy is to "Rush 5, drop 6".

For those that think our Defense sucks, you're entitled to your opinion but it is wrong. To those that think the 2-gap entirely sucks, you're wrong as well. The main problem with this defense IMO is the inability to get pressure from our base front (3-4 odd, DEs playing the 5-tech). To play our scheme effectively, you need smart DEs who can address the play quickly and accordingly. Simply put, our DEs are not smart enough or talented enough to do so in our base front. Granted, Allan Bailey is fine from our sub package (playing the 3-tech), but can't be relied on in our base front because he doesn't play well against the run or quickly diagnoses run v. pass enough to provide an adequate rush, much like our other DEs.

I know most will just see a wall of text, but this will probably help several understand some of our defensive flaws and why we struggle against the pass in our base set.

Cliffs:
1. Our 2-gap requires players we have not acquired; it can still be effective but is much more difficult to do than a 1-gap philosophy.
2. The responsibilities for a 2-gap DE and NT are much more difficult than those of a 1-gap.
3. I personally would like to see our team go to a 1-gap. Attacking defensive lineman are much better served than run-stoppers in today's NFL.

I know most will tl;dr, but if you disagree with it, post your thoughts. We have too much bitching on this site and not enough discussion about scheme, football philosophies, and concepts.
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:05 AM   #61
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Another know-it-all gas bag that likes to insult others but gets sand in her vagina when someone pushes back. I'm usually nice to others here, but not when their initial greeting involves telling me that I don't know shit about football. Maybe you're not as nice, positive or smart as you think you are.

I can imagine that Pioli might have been drunk on visions of Richard Seymour when he reached for Jackson at #3. But the reality for Jackson was that he never got a chance to develop as a pass rusher. He was thrust into a new position and scheme that demanded he focus on new priorities. (Like "eating blockers".) Truly a baptism by fire with high expectations for the immediate starter.

I don't see him lacking the size and athleticism to be a DE in a 4-3. Maybe not an elite pass-rushing DE you'd expect at the #3 pick. But again, who else but Pioli would have picked him that high? He would just need to improve his pass rushing techniques. And that would have been much easier if it had been emphasized and better coached from the beginning of his NFL career.

So who's to say that Jackson could not have developed into a legit 4-3 LDE if given the chance? You? You're not that smart. If you were any smarter than the rest of us idiots, you wouldn't be hanging around here debating this with me. Nobody knows for sure. I put Jackson at LDE based on the current roster and a hypothetical 4-3 scheme. I like the thought of Dorsey and Poe at DT with Hali rushing on the edge. So Jackson defaults to LDE. The Seahawks have been able to make a legit LDE out of former DT Red Bryant. I don't see why it's impossible to believe that Jackson could have been coached up to expand on his successful SEC run as a good LDE. To me, Jackson had the more plausible upside for the position. But hey, don't let me slow you down with reason and real world pragmatism.
If Kc theoretically switched to a 4-3, Jackson can **** off because Houston and Hali would be our DE's. They're sure not going to play the WILL or SAM in a 4-3.
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Old 10-02-2012, 06:26 AM   #62
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The smart people know that a 2 gap defense is more difficult to play than a one gap defense. That's why it's annoying that we run it.

Even IF you diagnose pass early, respecting the run as a 2 gap lineman has already set you up for failure on your pass rush because you have to play head up on the blocker to make sure you can discard your blocker to either side to play both of your gaps. You essentally end up blocking yourself that way by keeping offensive linemen in front of you instead of getting past them.

It just goes against the fundamental nature of defense...getting OFF blocks and attacking the football.
That's a minor thing that can be fixed.

The D-lineman should be able to recognize what type of play is going to occur(whether it's run or pass) by looking at the stances of the opposing O-lineman.

Im just gonna say our Dlineman are not instinctively smart because they don't anticipate well enough. Instead, they are too caught up within the philosophy of the scheme itself.
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:11 AM   #63
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That's a minor thing that can be fixed.

The D-lineman should be able to recognize what type of play is going to occur(whether it's run or pass) by looking at the stances of the opposing O-lineman.

Im just gonna say our Dlineman are not instinctively smart because they don't anticipate well enough. Instead, they are too caught up within the philosophy of the scheme itself.
Uhhhh.

I think they've had "technique" drilled into their heads since Roleo arrived. That and the fact that they've been taught that run defense is their main responsibility is causing our lack of d-line pressure.

Roleo's defenses have never been known as "attacking" defenses anyhow. He's known for the bend-don't-break philosophy while waiting for the offense to make a mistake. Of course, he refined that approach while working with the Patriots and Manning was their nemesis during those days. He knew that pressure against Manning would only lead to more completions in the long run.

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Old 10-02-2012, 07:23 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
If Kc theoretically switched to a 4-3, Jackson can **** off because Houston and Hali would be our DE's. They're sure not going to play the WILL or SAM in a 4-3.
Jackson could probably play tackle in a 4-3.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:31 AM   #65
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:44 AM   #66
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:12 AM   #67
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Wow that didn't work out. My mobile sucks ass.

I was gonna say, Sorter you wanted them to play 1 gap. Looks like you're getting your wish.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:35 PM   #68
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Wow that didn't work out. My mobile sucks ass.

I was gonna say, Sorter you wanted them to play 1 gap. Looks like you're getting your wish.
You're goddamn right.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:42 PM   #69
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Wow that didn't work out. My mobile sucks ass.

I was gonna say, Sorter you wanted them to play 1 gap. Looks like you're getting your wish.
Yeah, count me in on that bandwagon as well. Really looking forward to what we can do, especially considering we now have corners not named Brandon Flowers that can play press man.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:47 PM   #70
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Yeah, count me in on that bandwagon as well. Really looking forward to what we can do, especially considering we now have corners not named Brandon Flowers that can play press man.
I still would rather have had Javier playing inside than Flowers +Dunta outside against multiple personnel right now.

Probably because I'm still scarred from memories of Dunta get worked by McCluster.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:52 PM   #71
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I still would rather have had Javier playing inside than Flowers +Dunta outside against multiple personnel right now.

Probably because I'm still scarred from memories of Dunta get worked by McCluster.
Heh, just chalk that up to Dunta having a bad day.

It would have been nice to keep Arenas as our fourth CB/blitzing corner, for sure. Certainly better than trading him for a goddamned fullback.

I have no reason to think this is a good idea, but I like the thought of Dunta being our starting free safety and moving him down to nickel back on nickel/dime packages, kind of like what we did with Jerome Woods. Would that be feasible in an attack style 1-gap, especially considering our personnel?
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:54 PM   #72
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Heh, just chalk that up to Dunta having a bad day.
He had a bunch of shitty games last year.

I hate Sean Smith and I think ****a is probably worse.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:59 PM   #73
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He had a bunch of shitty games last year.

I hate Sean Smith and I think ****a is probably worse.
I think Sean Smith is going to make or break us on D on a ton of plays. I haven't watched a ton of his stuff, but he does look to get beat in man a bunch. But he's young and has all the measurables you'd want in a corner.

I liked Dunta a lot more a couple/few years back, that's why I like the idea of him moving to free safety rather than just being a straight corner/nickel guy.
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:01 AM   #74
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Heh, just chalk that up to Dunta having a bad day.

It would have been nice to keep Arenas as our fourth CB/blitzing corner, for sure. Certainly better than trading him for a goddamned fullback.

I have no reason to think this is a good idea, but I like the thought of Dunta being our starting free safety and moving him down to nickel back on nickel/dime packages, kind of like what we did with Jerome Woods. Would that be feasible in an attack style 1-gap, especially considering our personnel?
Probably. The interesting thing is that Sutton does use a 2-3-6 variant (various alignments as opposed to the front Romeo utilized) quite a bit as his pass D personnel.

From the OTA reports, I haven't seen anything about Dunta playing FS. I think that that could be a better fit than him playing inside. I don't know enough/watched enough of Nolan's Defense to know whether or not he was playing press on the inside. I'd assume so, given his(Nolan's) background.

I think if you were really going to utilize Dunta + Javier, you'd utilize quite a few fire-zone concepts to create adequate matchups for them as blitzers. That's why I was really high on Ray Horton coming here.
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:04 AM   #75
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Now, we may see that but instead of pure fire-zone concepts, we'll see more combo blitzes in which various players are playing zone and man and still using unique blitz concepts (think fire-zones with man up top and LBs dropping into zone and the opposite).

I do think that we're going to primarily see a majority of man-blitz oriented philosophies. I really have been slacking on doing my Sutton research.
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