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Old 10-03-2012, 04:44 PM  
DaFace DaFace is offline
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Presidential Debate Drinking Game

I know at least I'll need it in order to keep from throwing a brick through my TV tonight...

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Old 10-03-2012, 07:23 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saulbadguy View Post
Romney is getting destroyed.
what are you watching?
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:23 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saulbadguy View Post
Romney is getting destroyed.
MainSteam Media analysis?
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:24 PM   #33
alnorth alnorth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saulbadguy View Post
Romney is getting destroyed.
no one is getting destroyed. GOP partisans will mock Obama's clunky awkwardness, and Dem partisans are going to laugh at Romney's talking points, but the voters who matter are going to get bored.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:24 PM   #34
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Obama has not presented anything but rhetoric so far. I am not saying Romney is nailing detailed specifics but he is ahead nonetheless. And another Bill Clinton name drop.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:24 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saulbadguy View Post
Romney is getting destroyed.
um... not at all, Obama got a few solid jabs in but as a debate judge for years, I can tell you, Romney is winning on overall on almost all fronts.

The far right will of course say Romney is winning, far left will say Obama is winning.. but based on what I am seeing, Romney is winning the middle right now.. and that is what matters.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:25 PM   #36
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I'm stuck listening to this on radio.

It seems like O is getting a little mad.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:25 PM   #37
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ahhhh, clinton. he who benefitted from the tech bubble. the same tech bubble that led to the first bush II recession.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:25 PM   #38
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Regardless of what he's saying, Romney's a bit of an ass when it comes to respecting the moderator.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:25 PM   #39
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kstater View Post
What specific has Romney said?
I thought he 5 points were much better stated than Obama's plan.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:25 PM   #40
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:25 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace View Post
...I thought you were talking about Obama and Romney as "participants" and that there was some new rule governing the debate that I didn't know about. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

But yes - they do like to completely ignore the question and go back to the same old talking points. It's obnoxious.
It's called "the pivot," and NPR did a whole special on it this morning. It was pretty interesting. Basically, take the question, find a way to "pivot" it to get into a prerehearsed answer. The "expert" on NPR estimated that this was usually done like 70% of the time.

Here's the report:
http://www.npr.org/2012/10/03/162103...g-the-question
Quote:
October 3, 2012
Brett O'Donnell is a debate consultant who trains Republican candidates. He has worked with George W. Bush and John McCain, and for a short time earlier this year, he helped prep Mitt Romney.

O'Donnell is an expert on "the pivot."

If you have watched a debate, you have watched a pivot. "The pivot is a way of taking a question that might be on a specific subject, and moving to answer it on your own terms," O'Donnell says.

Take, as just one small example, a moment from the 2004 debate between President George W. Bush and Sen. John Kerry.


YouTube
You could, by the way, just as easily use an example from Kerry both Bush and Kerry used pivots roughly the same amount of the time.

In this case, the moderator, Bob Schieffer of CBS News, asked President Bush about job loss. What, Schieffer wondered, would Bush say to someone who has lost his job? Bush began by promising to "continue to grow our economy" and then, subtly, changed course. Suddenly, Bush was talking about education, specifically his signature No Child Left Behind legislation. "I went to Washington to solve problems," he explained. "And I saw a problem in the public education system."

In two or three sentences, Bush had moved from a question about lack of jobs to an answer about education and a promise fulfilled. That is the power of the pivot. Which is why, in the age of debate coaches like O'Donnell, candidates in both parties use them all the time "frequently," O'Donnell says, "better than 60 or 70 percent of the time, I would say."

The question is, how good are viewers at identifying these "pivots" or, in the language of my people (journalists who ask questions), "dodges"?

How good are you?

There's a man at Harvard who actually has an answer to that question.

The Pivot And The Brain

Todd Rogers, a behavioral psychologist at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, got interested in looking at pivots, or dodges, or whatever you want to call them, after watching the 2004 Bush-Kerry debate I quoted earlier.

To him, the dodging on both sides of that debate was enraging, and he couldn't understand why others didn't feel the same.

To figure it out, he decided to do a study that tried to replicate what typical viewers see when they watch a debate.

He recorded a moderator asking candidates a series of questions.

In the first question, the moderator asked the candidates about health care in America, and the politician answered with a health care answer a long disquisition on why Americans could not afford the care they needed.

Rogers then took that answer and used it as a response to a totally different moderator question, this one about the problem of illegal drug use. So one set of people saw a candidate answering a health care question with a health care answer, while another group saw an illegal-drug use question answered with a health care answer. Essentially, the second group saw a relatively subtle pivot, from drug use question to health care answer.

Finally, he had a third group view the moderator asking a question about terrorism, which was answered again with the exact same health care answer a much more blatant shift.

At the end of this he asked the different groups two things:

Can you remember what question the person was asked?

How honest, likable and trustworthy is this person?

'Exploiting Our Cognitive Limitation'

What he found was that when a politician answered the health care question with a health care answer, viewers could recall the question and thought the candidate was likable, honest and trustworthy.

When the politician pivoted a little bit and answered the illegal drug question with a health care answer, viewers could not recall the question but they didn't penalize the politician at all. "Listeners thought he was just as honest, trustworthy and likable as the guy who actually answered the question," Rogers says.

It was only when the politician answered the terrorism question with a health care answer that people could actually tell. "Everyone noticed, and they thought he was a jerk," Rogers says.

This led Rogers to the conclusion that people are capable of detecting dodges but only if they're egregious. They don't seem capable of detecting subtle evasions.

Rogers believes this is because we have limited attention, and most of the time when we're watching debates, we spend that attention on social evaluation Do we like this person? Do we trust this person? and only generally monitor content.

It's only when the speaker is wildly inconsistent that some deep mental wire is tripped. "It raises some flags, and we direct our limited attention to assessing whether this person is doing something unusual by failing to answer the question and offering an egregiously different answer," Rogers says.

This, Rogers believes, is why politicians can get away with dodging questions as much as 70 percent of the time.

"Politicians," he says, "are exploiting our cognitive limitation without punishment
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:26 PM   #42
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Romney is winning the debate.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:26 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
And another Bill Clinton name drop.
That is not a negative. Not sure why you keep pointing that out as if it were some unforced error.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:27 PM   #44
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
That is not a negative. Not sure why you keep pointing that out as if it were some unforced error.
Because he keeps trying to paint himself as Clinton and he has not had 1/10 of the success that Clinton had.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:28 PM   #45
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Odd time to mention he wants to cut funding for PBS, but OK.
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