who won the presidential debate?

[Trivers]

What say yea?

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by blaise

I'm sure conservatives appreciate your concern for what's in their best interests.

you didnt answer the question.

[blaise]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

you didnt answer the question.

If a candidate says he thinks one thing and then allows his views to evolve so he can cater to a voting base it really makes me wonder if he's sincere about anything.

[mlyonsd]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Promoting a $5 trillion tax cut for a year and a half and then in the middle of a debate...... uhhh that's not my plan.

I didn't misspeak about the 47%, I maybe didn't say it elegantly but it was the truth. Now..........I'm totally wrong.

I'm against Obamacare....well I want to keep all the major parts but the mandate part.

He is about as far away from a principled conservative as a Republican presidential candidate has ever been.

Which still makes him more principled than the moron in chief.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by blaise

If a candidate says he thinks one thing and then allows his views to evolve so he can cater to a voting base it really makes me wonder if he's sincere about anything.

and that goes for both sides of thew aisle.

[King_Chief_Fan]

maybe BO can challenge Romeny to a round of golf for the second round...Lord knows the man gets more time playing golf than anything else.

[blaise]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

and that goes for both sides of thew aisle.

Yep. Evolving stances make you seem like you're just trying to get cheap votes.

[Saul Good]

The man who was elected to govern one of the most liberal states in the country is a right wing extremist, but a community organizer from Chicago is a centrist.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Explain.

I already did. One of the examples I used was his tax policy philosophy. He accepts the wisdom shared by conservatives with respect to the benefit of a lower-rate, broader-base tax being good for economic growth, but he's not so ideological that he's calling for a flat tax. Even if he's tinkered with the details of his taxation proposals over the past 5 years to account for criticisms from both the right and left or to account for new economic conditions, he's remained consistent on his view that lower rates and a broader base are what the economy needs.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

No, not perceived differences. Differences.

The Mitt Romney at the turn of the century was different than the Mitt Romney who governed Massachussetts, who was different than the Mitt Romney of the 2008 campaign, who was different than the Mitt Romney of the past four years, and the Mitt Romney we're getting now is a Etch N Sketched callback to a decade ago.

Over and over again, even in the 2012 primary debates, candidates from Romney's own party hated on him for being so nebulous on the issues, hedging his bets rhetorically so he could break either way should he need to. This is not a reality invented by Obama, or Democrats, or Direckshun. It's one introduced by his own party for the past five years because it's accurate.

You are inventing and living in a PR-fueled altnernate reality where Romney is a principled conservative who has not changed his positions constantly, or remained so nebulous on a bunch of other positions that he could shift as he needs to later on.

It's simply not true.

Now you're changing your story. There's a huge difference between Romney being a different person and Romney not painting himself into a corner by insisting on fine-grained detail but instead remaining consistent at a higher level of conservative principle. Sorry, Direckshun, your fake descriptions won't work anymore now that people have had a chance to see Romney for themselves.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by patteeu

Sorry, Direckshun, your fake descriptions won't work anymore now that people have had a chance to see Romney for themselves.

I didn't see Romney. I saw fake Romney.

Here's team Obama's official response.

[ghak99]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Again, I'm not apologizing for what was clearly a lackluster performance by the President. But let's be straight here. Romney was effective because he rolled out a new, moderate version of himself that contrasts sharply with the self-described "severely conservative" Romney of the past four years.

Up to this point, Romney/Ryan was clearly the most conservative ticket the Republicans had put out there since I can remember. I can't think of another Republican candidacy that was more conservative, though my recollection only goes as far back as Reagan's 1980s campaign.

You have lost your ****ing mind.

I can't believe people argue with you after reading this drivel.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by Saul Badguy

The man who was elected to govern one of the most liberal states in the country is a right wing extremist, but a community organizer from Chicago is a centrist.

Records and rhetoric, Saul. Records and rhetoric.

Romney was a centrist governor, no doubt. But he's since turned on that record and run perhaps the most conservative Presidential campaign in modern history up to about one week ago.

Obama on the other hand, has run, to be generous on the liberal side of things, a center-left administration.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by patteeu

I already did. One of the examples I used was his tax policy philosophy. He accepts the wisdom shared by conservatives with respect to the benefit of a lower-rate, broader-base tax being good for economic growth, but he's not so ideological that he's calling for a flat tax. Even if he's tinkered with the details of his taxation proposals over the past 5 years to account for criticisms from both the right and left or to account for new economic conditions, he's remained consistent on his view that lower rates and a broader base are what the economy needs.

All campaign, he endorsed the Paul Ryan plan, so much so that he selected the dude to be his running mate. That's classic conservative movement material. Period.

They moderated the Ryan plan slightly a week after Ryan was on board. But in this past debate, he kept it an ocean's distance away. This is actual new information.

Once again, you defer to Republicans and ascribe beautiful intentions to everything they do. You paint Democrats as crass political creatures who put poll numbers ahead of reality.

And this is why, to you, Obama is simultaneously a poll-watcher and a usurper of the American people's will. Somehow.

While at the same time, Romney to you is a principled conservative who's simultaneously run a consistent platform that hasn't changed in any significant way, even though you admit it has but it was with pure intentions in mind.

You're exposed. This is ridiculous.

You want to argue Romney kicked ass two nights ago? No one here will argue with you.

But if you want to overreach and claim Romney did so cleanly, without running from his record and dramatically changing his positions that he's advanced for the past four years?

That's a disingenuous bridge too far. Which is not new behavior for you. It's just slightly more amusing this time around.

[ROYC75]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Records and rhetoric, Saul. Records and rhetoric.

Romney was a centrist governor, no doubt. But he's since turned on that record and run perhaps the most conservative Presidential campaign in modern history up to about one week ago.

Obama on the other hand, has run, to be generous on the liberal side of things, a center-left administration.

Center my butt, Obama has been so far left they are driving in the opposite lane's ditch!

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by patteeu

Now you're changing your story. There's a huge difference between Romney being a different person and Romney not painting himself into a corner by insisting on fine-grained detail but instead remaining consistent at a higher level of conservative principle.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

On several topics, Romney reversed himself two nights ago.

On several other topics, Romney has kept himself so vague so that he can bob and weave specifics to dodge his opponents' arguments.

This is not new news. It happened in 2008. It happened this primary season. And now it's happening now.

Everybody on earth agreed this was common behavior for this guy.

But now that the stakes involve potentially defeating Obama, Republicans and conservatives have comfortably reversed that belief, now embracing the claim that Romney is a consistent, principled conservative. Just like they reversed themselves on cap and trade, the individual mandate, DREAM, federal stimulus, federal education reform, spreading democracy in the Middle East, and endless other topics since January 2009.

In a way, I'm glad we've got Romney on board for the 2012 GOP opponent, whether he wins or loses.

Because he is the encapsulation of the sudden radical ideological turns, intellectual dishonesty and partisan brinksmanship that has embodied today's Republican Party.