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Old 10-19-2012, 10:55 AM  
Chiefspants Chiefspants is offline
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If Romney wins the popular vote but loses the electoral college..

Would it be time to abolish the electoral college for good?
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:16 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Sannyasi View Post
Its time to abolish the electoral college whether or not it effects this election. I personally am not happy letting voters in Ohio and Florida exclusively decide our presidential elections.
I know, it stinks none of the other states even get to vote...
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:21 PM   #47
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The only realistic way we'll get rid of the electoral college, not technically but effectively, is with the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. Its easy, clean, and does not need a constitutional amendment.

Almost half the needed electoral votes worth of states have already signed on. They are all blue, but if we get an election where the GOP gets the Al Gore treatment, then maybe thats all it'll take.
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:30 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Cannibal View Post
If Romney wins the popular vote, but loses electoral college, I'm assuming the Wingers will be just fine with that, like they were in 2000.
And we can assume the left will be outraged like they were in 2000.
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Old 10-19-2012, 09:35 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
It would be the strongest argument for its abolishment. The typical argument is that the EC provides a voice for the small states in the Presidential Electoral processs. If Obama were to lose the popular vote but win the EC, he would do so carrying two of the most heavily populated regions of the country (New England/New York State, California, West Coast). An argument could be made that the EC no longer provides a voice in the electoral process for smaller states like MT, ID, etc.

Not saying that that is my personal argument, or that it would happen. I highly doubt it, but it would come up for discussion.
I hate the EC. I don't feel like my vote means shit with it. As I'm sure the average voter in most of the mid country states also feel.

I'm tired of the argument that it gives smaller states more power. It doesn't.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:54 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Guru View Post
I hate the EC. I don't feel like my vote means shit with it. As I'm sure the average voter in most of the mid country states also feel.

I'm tired of the argument that it gives smaller states more power. It doesn't.
Without it states become meaningless for presidential electoral purposes.

You can argue that's a good thing or a bad thing, but you can't argue that it's not a thing.
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Old 10-19-2012, 10:59 PM   #51
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It's not going anywhere. We're not a true democracy; we're a representative democracy. Everywhere else in the world, the term 'state' is more or less equivalent to 'nation', but we are fifty states, united, not just one country divided into fifty pieces. We don't choose the President - the states do, but we tell the states who to choose. It seems trivial, but it's at the center of our system of government.
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Old 10-20-2012, 08:13 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sannyasi View Post
Its time to abolish the electoral college whether or not it effects this election. I personally am not happy letting voters in Ohio and Florida exclusively decide our presidential elections.
Those states don't exclusively decide the election. They're just the indecisive swing votes.
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Old 10-20-2012, 08:21 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
The only realistic way we'll get rid of the electoral college, not technically but effectively, is with the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. Its easy, clean, and does not need a constitutional amendment.

Almost half the needed electoral votes worth of states have already signed on. They are all blue, but if we get an election where the GOP gets the Al Gore treatment, then maybe thats all it'll take.
Well the let those states divide up their votes.
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Old 10-20-2012, 08:41 AM   #54
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States already can, if they want. Two (Maine and Nebraska) already do.
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Old 10-20-2012, 09:19 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Those states don't exclusively decide the election. They're just the indecisive swing votes.
Correct. Some states have a divergent population with large populations. Both sides have a number of states that consistently vote for one side. It's just math.

If people are wanting to change to a straight popular vote because they they it will make their vote matter more, keep a few states from deciding the election are wrong. Studies on both sides have proven that it wont make a vote in one state matter more than another state.

We live in a 51%/49% country. A few states/groups are always going to decide the election.
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Old 10-20-2012, 09:23 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
States already can, if they want. Two (Maine and Nebraska) already do.
The studies have shown that if you split the states according to the popular vote in the state, it wouldn't change the outcome of any presidential election so far.
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Old 10-20-2012, 01:27 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
The only realistic way we'll get rid of the electoral college, not technically but effectively, is with the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. Its easy, clean, and does not need a constitutional amendment.

Almost half the needed electoral votes worth of states have already signed on. They are all blue, but if we get an election where the GOP gets the Al Gore treatment, then maybe thats all it'll take.
I hate the idea. You are going against the will of the voters in your states.
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Old 10-20-2012, 01:30 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sannyasi View Post
Its time to abolish the electoral college whether or not it effects this election. I personally am not happy letting voters in Ohio and Florida exclusively decide our presidential elections.
If you change the electoral college system to those used in Nebraska and Maine where each congressional district is up for grabs, there would be no such thing as swing states. Candidates would have to visit the most competitive districts. It would also be more representational than a statewide winner take all system.
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Old 10-20-2012, 02:01 PM   #59
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For the longest time, I figured it would be the other way around with him losing the popular and winning the electoral. The debates have changed my line of thinking.

But to answer your question, probably yeah. It's probably needed to be done away with/retooled for quite some time, anyway.
Yep. Been an advocate of this for some time.

Every vote counts! Fortunately only in your state.

BTA, an amendment to the effect that that you add 2 ECV to a pool for each state, a bonus as you will, winner of of the National vote takes the 100 votes!
Then the problem will probably solve itself, chances of anybody ever winning one vote and losing the other goes out the window.

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Old 10-20-2012, 06:21 PM   #60
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Issues with Splitting State's Votes

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Originally Posted by Chiefspants View Post
I'm a Democrat, but regardless of my political beliefs, I was for it then as well. (Though I was eight years old.) I think it's an archaic system that needs to be abolished or altered, (in a way that the states split their electoral handouts, as what's been mentioned in this thread.)

Unfortunately, all of the above would take a constitutional amendment, and likely a united outcry from the public. (I was wondering if this was a possibility if the latter occurred again.)
An analysis of the whole number proportional plan and congressional district systems of awarding electoral votes, evaluated the systems "on the basis of whether they promote majority rule, make elections more nationally competitive, reduce incentives for partisan machinations, and make all votes count equally. . . .

Awarding electoral votes by a proportional or congressional district [used by Maine and Nebraska] method fails to promote majority rule, greater competitiveness or voter equality. Pursued at a state level, both reforms dramatically increase incentives for partisan machinations. If done nationally, the congressional district system has a sharp partisan tilt toward the Republican Party, while the whole number proportional system sharply increases the odds of no candidate getting the majority of electoral votes needed, leading to the selection of the president by the U.S. House of Representatives.

For states seeking to exercise their responsibility under the U.S. Constitution to choose a method of allocating electoral votes that best serves their state’s interest and that of the national interest, both alternatives fall far short of the National Popular Vote plan . . ."

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