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Old 10-22-2012, 06:32 AM  
Deberg_1990 Deberg_1990 is offline
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Manual or Automatic transmission..which do you prefer?

Can an Automatic be as much fun as a manual?



http://jalopnik.com/5952570/a-manual...o-deal-with-it



Car enthusiasts have been bemoaning the lack of manual transmissions in cars for what seems like an eternity. Every time a new car comes out and it doesn't offer a manual gearbox, it gets shunned by every card carrying member of the enthusiast community.

But guess what? The manual transmission is outdated technology and there are better things out there. It's time to get over it and say bye bye.
Before I get yelled at by all of you, I want to say that we're not too different. I love a good manual gearbox. If a car has one, I'm instantly more interested in it. And let me tell you, nailing a perfectly rev matched downshift instantly makes me smile. I'm absolutely for putting manual transmissions in everything. When I have a little Travis or Travisette running around I'm going to find a way to stick one in his or her Cozy Coupe.

But I am totally against the notion that having a manual is the only way to properly enjoy a car. That is bullshit. Complete bullshit.

'Manual elitists,' as I call them, will shirk the notion that a car without a third pedal can be engaging to drive. They say that it isn't pure, it isn't as much fun, they don't feel connected.

Bull. Take a current Nissan GT-R to a race track and drive it as fast you can. Then tell me it would be better with a manual gearbox. It just wouldn't be. Your corner speeds will be slower, your straight-line speeds will be slower, and your lap times will be slower.

But you say you don't feel engaged? The point of driving a car quickly, either on a race track or a road, is to make it from the start to finish as fast as humanly possible. If you drive a GT-R on track and don't feel engaged, well, then you just aren't going fast enough.

For a long, long time, a manual gearbox was the best way to do just that, to be the fastest.

It just isn't the case anymore. Times have changed, and we enthusiasts need to adapt to it as well. Everyone dislikes someone who repeatedly refers to the past and says "in my day, we did it this way."

That's what we in the enthusiast community are becoming. Nostalgia is our enemy, technology is our friend.

Funny thing is, a bunch of manual elitists probably own an iPod, subscribe to Netflix, and own a smart phone. The rest of their lives evolved, yet they just can't let the manual tranny go.

I see the manual gearbox like a film camera. When digital first hit the scene, it was terrible. People stuck with film. However, over time, digital got better and better and more and more people started switching. It got to a point where the pros and the stubborn were the only ones with film.

And guess what? Now even the pros use digital. And much like how they could manipulate film better than the average person, their digital pictures are that much better.

It's the same case here. Give a Porsche 991 with a PDK gearbox to two drivers, one great, one not so great. The double clutch transmission will not suddenly make the bad driver a God. He'll still be a mortal. The good driver will be able to manipulate the gearbox better and get the most out of it. He'll still be faster.

And that's where I think a lot of manual defense comes from: fear and snobbery. People think they're members of an elite club just because they know how a clutch works and can heel and toe. Guess what? You're alienating possible enthusiasts by being that way.

As enthusiasts, we should want to welcome everyone, not be scared of others suddenly being better at driving than us. First off, they won't be. Secondly, more competition for the fastest time is better. It's more fun. And having people interested in driving faster makes more enthusiasts. Giving them access to the tools to be quick breeds enthusiasm.

With people caring less and less about cars, we need to make more enthusiasts. We aren't helping by lambasting anyone that can't drive a manual gearbox.

By making exciting cars more accessible to people that may not be as skilled creates passion. Passion builds bonds. Bonds create friends. That's what we need in the enthusiast community.

What we don't need is snobbery and fear of the new.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:46 AM   #31
HemiEd HemiEd is offline
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I like them both, and have both.

I think it depends on the driving you plan on doing. Not sure I would really want a stick for everyday driving in traffic anymore, but used to love it. Driving a stick becomes muscle memory and automatic after a while.

When I ordered the Challenger, I ordered it with the 5 speed automatic so Mrs. HemiEd could drive it, as she refuses to learn how to drive a stick.

Well the Challenger is 50 months old now, and she still hasn't driven it, and says she won't until I get the first dent, so I should have gotten the stick.

Our 4wd Dodge Ram has a 5 speed stick and it is a lot of fun. I honestly don't think an automatic would handle backing the boat up the hill into the garage like the stick does. Forward yes, but not backing up. Low lock rocks!

I think it is funny when you take it to a car wash or a valet, and they have to go get the guy that knows how to drive something with three pedals.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:47 AM   #32
Saulbadguy Saulbadguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
Thatís what I meant by ďauto stickĒ. Itís an automatic but it has a mode that allows the driver to select the gear by moving the shifter either forward or back to up or downshift.
Do those get any of the aforementioned benefits of using a manual (while in manual mode?)
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:48 AM   #33
Rausch Rausch is offline
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Manual.

Never owned an automatic...
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:50 AM   #34
DenverDanChiefsFan DenverDanChiefsFan is offline
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Depends on the car. Some cars should never be produced with an automatic transmission.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:54 AM   #35
Silock Silock is offline
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Even today, manuals tend to be faster than their equivalent automatic counterparts. Manual is more fun, but automatic is better in 99% of daily driving situations.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:55 AM   #36
Radar Chief Radar Chief is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIAdragon View Post
I think DJ is right here. The difference in parasitic loss is what 18% for an auto and 15% for manual, that measly 3% is easily made up by a computer controlled trans. This argument was true 25 years ago when the auto's were power glides and TH400's. Today's autos are VERY efficient, If manuals truly were more efficient you would see them in cars like the Prius that ONLY come in an auto.
I donít necessarily disagree with that. If an engine is making enough power the difference in parasitic loss is negligible, and modern transmissions have become much more efficient than they used to be.
With the Prius youíve got a lot of things going on other than just delivering power to the wheels. Like when you first hit the brakes in a Prius youíre not actually putting brake pad to disk, itís actually connecting the electric motor in reverse as it spins it is charging the batteries. This is how they get their fantastic mileage in stop and go traffic. Thatís also something I donít think would be easy to accomplish with a manual transmission.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:56 AM   #37
lazepoo lazepoo is offline
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I prefer a manual transmission myself. Driving through inclement weather, I feel that I have more complete control over the vehicle than with an AT. Also, from a practical standpoint, I think a MT is cheaper to maintain than an automatic and less prone to breakage. Another plus for me is that I feel I could probably fix a problem with my MT myself, but an AT, probably not.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:58 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIAdragon View Post
I think DJ is right here. The difference in parasitic loss is what 18% for an auto and 15% for manual, that measly 3% is easily made up by a computer controlled trans. This argument was true 25 years ago when the auto's were power glides and TH400's. Today's autos are VERY efficient, If manuals truly were more efficient you would see them in cars like the Prius that ONLY come in an auto.
That is interesting, things must have changed, I hadn't thought of that.

I know back in my drag racing days, one of the advantages of putting a 'glide in my Mopar (other than the tranny brake ) was that it only took about 48 hp to run it, and the 727 took about a 100.

I am sure torque converter technology has helped a lot with the gas mileage and the efficiency situation as well. The early "lock up" converters were a real problem source, but I haven't heard anything about them in years now.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:59 AM   #39
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In a Vette or something like that, stick all the way. In your commuter box, who wants to mess with a clutch.
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:00 AM   #40
Radar Chief Radar Chief is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saulbadguy View Post
Do those get any of the aforementioned benefits of using a manual (while in manual mode?)
Itís still the same transmission spinning all the same parts, but youíll have more control over when it shifts. This could be good or bad for gas mileage. With me behind the wheel, mostly bad.
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:01 AM   #41
Deberg_1990 Deberg_1990 is offline
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I havent driven a stick in years, but i remember it being alot of fun.

It just wouldnt work for me today, (wife) and the stop and go traffic i drive in nearly everyday to and from work.
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:06 AM   #42
Radar Chief Radar Chief is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiEd View Post
That is interesting, things must have changed, I hadn't thought of that.

I know back in my drag racing days, one of the advantages of putting a 'glide in my Mopar (other than the tranny brake ) was that it only took about 48 hp to run it, and the 727 took about a 100.

I am sure torque converter technology has helped a lot with the gas mileage and the efficiency situation as well. The early "lock up" converters were a real problem source, but I haven't heard anything about them in years now.
I think a big part of the efficiency with modern auto transmissions comes from having electric servos do the shifting instead of fluid pressure. At least thatís the main difference between something like a TH700R4 and a 4L60E. Theyíre both GM 4 speeds but one is electronic controlled and the other still requires fluid pressure to sense when to shift and provide the power to shift.
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:09 AM   #43
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I've never understood why manual is considered "fun." I'm not a car guy obviously.
It just makes you feel like you have more control of the car......almost like the racecar feel.

I dunno JMO....

All I know if that my first car was a 5-spd manual...and i miss driving it LOL.
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:10 AM   #44
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:10 AM   #45
Radar Chief Radar Chief is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazepoo View Post
I prefer a manual transmission myself. Driving through inclement weather, I feel that I have more complete control over the vehicle than with an AT. Also, from a practical standpoint, I think a MT is cheaper to maintain than an automatic and less prone to breakage. Another plus for me is that I feel I could probably fix a problem with my MT myself, but an AT, probably not.
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Iím just a shade tree wrench but Iíve been through a few manual transmissions now, once you learn the basic operation of one theyíre actually pretty simple beasts. Still wouldnít touch an automatic though. Thereís some voodoo going on inside of one and Iíd just prefer to take it to someone that knows what theyíre doing.
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